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ICP and ICP DC are pretty high for just reving in the driveway. I'm seeing up to 2747psi and 37.5% at one point.
Would it be worth checking your pedal assembly sensor (TPS) for smooth operation? I think you can read it's voltage in AE, or just use a multimeter across the correct wires, and see if it is putting out a clean voltage across it's travel.
I'm learning how AE puts it's data in CSV files - its a little unusual, with a separate time column for each parameter - and each is shifted by about a half to 3/4 second. Now that i know that, I won't read to much into time shifts from one PID to another. We'll just look at the data and see what we can learn. I tried to line the parameters up with each other the best I could.
The file actually had 2 ICP DC columns of data - they were nearly identical, so I just displayed one of them.
I agree with you, that FIPW is a bit jumpy - I think it should be more steady. ICP and ICP DC (same as IPR% in Forscan) are a bit jerky as well. This is just idle and raising the RPM to about 2000 while parked, correct? Did it cough/miss when at those elevated RPMs? It looks like it did (RPMs not steady).
Yes from what I experienced while running the truck and within those RPM ranges where the FIPW were strange in my opinion, would most likely be where it was "missing". I wish I hadn't messed up the test drive log but honestly though, it acts the same whether under load or not but it would be good to see what is going on that way as well. I really appreciate the help. Out of curiosity again, it was just in the driveway and no load, what do you think about the fuel pressure? IIRC from the tech post 55psi at idle and no lower than 45psi under load. I was sitting at 62-64 idle and just over 60 (no load) 2000ish rpms, in the driveway.
Dammit when I bought this thing I did so much research, scoured this forum, and learned a ton from what I read, but the truck has been so reliable. I've been absent for awhile and I quit playing with AE and studying on up on this stuff so now I have to learn all over again. I always enjoyed reading Tugly's adventures and all the other stuff. I wouldn't say that I've neglected her, but 9 years and many other hobbies later, the old girl is telling me she needs some love and attention.
ICP and ICP DC are pretty high for just reving in the driveway. I'm seeing up to 2747psi and 37.5% at one point.
Would it be worth checking your pedal assembly sensor (TPS) for smooth operation? I think you can read it's voltage in AE, or just use a multimeter across the correct wires, and see if it is putting out a clean voltage across it's travel.
If I am working locally I will check this tomorrow or Tuesday but if not it will have to wait until the weekend. I know in AE there were TPS readings I could have gotten but I wasn't even thinking about TPS. I love my truck truck but my Ducati's are soooo much easier to diagnose ha-ha.
Fuel pressure is good - those numbers are just fine for that rig parked. This issue is happening at no load, so we've eliminated no load fuel pressure as a contributor.
I hear you stepping away from the forum for a while - but it's always here and with plenty of new and old faces to help.
Fuel pressure is good - those numbers are just fine for that rig parked. This issue is happening at no load, so we've eliminated no load fuel pressure as a contributor.
I hear you stepping away from the forum for a while - but it's always here and with plenty of new and old faces to help.
OK so I was able to get back to this again this afternoon. I logged basically the same as before but added the TPS. I will have to say that if ran better than before but it is not still not right and I don't trust it to drag the mini-ex next weekend so I may be resigned to borrowing my buddy's (gasp) Dodge. I appreciate any and all the help you guys have given me. The only thing that I can think of that I haven't mentioned is the clutch safety switch. It's been jacked up for several years now but the only thing it has done is randomly affected whether the cruise control worked or not. I don't see how that could be this issue but whatever, at this point it's a random glitch. I am actually going to be working locally this week so if anyone has any ideas on what else to log and/or look at let me know.
It's still really jumpy. I just graphed the first couple minutes - accelerator position and RPM. Accelerator voltage looked identical. If you are smoothly pressing the pedal while sitting in the driveway, and then smoothly letting off on the pedal, this graph indicates a problem with the pedal output.
One thing to check first - what is the condition of the batteries, and the battery cables? Clean and tight connections? What is the battery voltage at Key On Engine Off after 2 minutes (after the glow plugs have cycled)? What is the battery voltage at idle after glow plugs have cycled? Just want to make sure the electrical system is putting out a clean 13.8-14.4V at idle.
If that's all good, try this: With the Key On Engine Off, start AE logging just Accelerator pedal position - Volts. Slowly press the pedal to the floor over 5 seconds. Hold it there for 5 more seconds, then let off on the pedal over a period of 5 seconds. Do this 3 times. Save that CSV file and post it here. Let's see how the pedal voltage tracks with everything else on the truck off. It should be a smooth curve if working. If it's glitchy, like the graph above, I think the pedal assembly could be defective. What I don't know is if there is a way to clean it, or if it's a sealed unit.
It's still really jumpy. I just graphed the first couple minutes - accelerator position and RPM. Accelerator voltage looked identical. If you are smoothly pressing the pedal while sitting in the driveway, and then smoothly letting off on the pedal, this graph indicates a problem with the pedal output.
One thing to check first - what is the condition of the batteries, and the battery cables? Clean and tight connections? What is the battery voltage at Key On Engine Off after 2 minutes (after the glow plugs have cycled)? What is the battery voltage at idle after glow plugs have cycled? Just want to make sure the electrical system is putting out a clean 13.8-14.4V at idle.
If that's all good, try this: With the Key On Engine Off, start AE logging just Accelerator pedal position - Volts. Slowly press the pedal to the floor over 5 seconds. Hold it there for 5 more seconds, then let off on the pedal over a period of 5 seconds. Do this 3 times. Save that CSV file and post it here. Let's see how the pedal voltage tracks with everything else on the truck off. It should be a smooth curve if working. If it's glitchy, like the graph above, I think the pedal assembly could be defective. What I don't know is if there is a way to clean it, or if it's a sealed unit.
The batteries are Costco Interstate and they are a year or two old. The cables and connections are in good shape as well.
Resting voltage of the batteries - 12.59v
KO after GP cycle - 12.38v
At idle - 14.4v
One thing I noticed yesterday and this afternoon on startup, it puffed a bit of smoke (smelled of un-burnt fuel) and was generally different than normal. It started kind of like a cold 6 liter but not nearly as bad, almost as if it was doing it's miss thing for a split second before it fired. I did notice a new code but it doesn't make sense to me, P1397 Variable Valve Timing Solenoid circuit low input. I'm not sure that it means anything but I thought I would bring it up.
I can't feel anything in the throttle pedal with my foot or by hand but it looks easy enough to take out to get a better look.
I may still get a blue CPS from Riff Raff as it appears they are on sale just to rule out maybe a bum cheapo grey one.
This is a good clue. Maybe the VPWR source, or the wiring that carries this signal, or the related grounds, are the issue. Your accelerator pedal may not be getting a clean voltage when the engine is running.
This is a good clue. Maybe the VPWR source, or the wiring that carries this signal, or the related grounds, are the issue. Your accelerator pedal may not be getting a clean voltage when the engine is running.
Sorry for the late reply, the stepson stopped by for my daughter's birthday and they were playing Minecraft which tied up the computers. This is the first time I've seen this code and excuse my ignorance, but what is VPWR? It looks like I'm going to have to buy a box o' beer and go through every ground and connection on this thing with a fine tooth comb. I apologize also, I just remembered that my clutch safety switch is jacked up. It has been effed for a few years and the only thing it has done is affect the clutch pedal swing and intermittently the cruise control doesn't work, which makes sense because if you step on the clutch (when working correctly) it kicks the cruise off. It has been jacked for so long I have gotten used to driving the truck I didn't even think about it. Honestly I think the old girl is telling me I need to pay more attention to her. I had a list of things I was going to do this late summer, fix a few little nagging issues, (clutch safety switch), rusted cab corners, and just general little things i have neglected. This running issue unfortunately has cut into that time along with all the other end of the summer honey do's and fun time.
Cory - I would fix what you know is wrong, like that clutch switch, so that you eliminate possible causes. Especially on these tough ones.
I'm not sure the difference in VBAT and VPWR - both PIDs read in the 12V range (13.8-14.4 when the truck is running). Let's try monitoring VPWR(V) along with the others and see what it looks like.
Can you do the same thing you just did to check the pedal, but with the engine running, and log it? Not full throttle certainly, but let it idle 5 seconds, then accelerate to as close to 2000 rpm as you can over 5 seconds. Hold it at 2000 rpm for 5 seconds, then slowly let off on the pedal over 5 seconds. Repeat 3 times.
Is it driveable? I know you needed to fix the fuel bowl leak first. Logging a WOT run or just normal acceleration run from 20 to 60 mph might be helpful.
Try these experiments and log with the ICP sensor unplugged and let's see if that changes anything. Remind me, did you replace the ICP sensor or the IPR? These both need to be motorcraft brand if possible.
Thank you for the pointers. I pulled the clutch safety switch and understand now what was going on with it (totally different issue that will need to be addressed at some point. Ford and their terrible clutch master cylinder design). I will change the switch in the next couple of days but I don't think that it has anything to with the current issue but as you said rule everything out. I replaced the ICP sensor with one from Napa, I figured it would be better than Autozone or Oreillys. I couldn't find a Motorcraft brand locally so I went with what felt was the best choice. The original ICP sensor was weeping oil into the pigtail connection.
I just ordered a new blue CPS from Clay, I doubt that is the issue but they were on sale and Motorcraft so I'll replace the grey one that is in there.
I will most likely have to wait to log your other suggestions until tomorrow afternoon or Friday. Too many other things going on today. I will do the running throttle test first then a driving test. The fuel bowl is most likely going need attention at a later date, the fuel leak only appeared with the bowl drain open and fuel pressure gauge attached. The bowl and valley are dry as a bone now. One thing I also need to remember is to unplug the bowl heater, I read that if it shorts out it can cause problems.
I will post the logs as soon as I can. Thanks again.
That makes sense on the clutch switch - likely unrelated.
So let's keep that ICP sensor in the back of our mind as we continue to troubleshoot. If we exhaust all our options, I would recommend changing that Napa unit out for Motorcraft. I have not heard of another brand being recommended equally alongside Ford sensors yet. Other parts, yes, but not these.
CPS from Riffraff - good plan. I'm still running the grey one myself - came with the truck. I'm assuming its the recall CPS from Ford, but not sure. I have Riffraff's motorcraft CPS in the glovebox if needed.
I tried that running throttle test on my truck using Forscan Lite, and graphing with the soon-to-be-released PID charting tool. It's hard to move that pedal steadily! I wanted to get a benchmark to compare your data to. You can see VPWR in the 4th chart - should be a flat line at 14.4V or so, running.
Awesome at least the there will be a known properly running truck to compare mine with. I don't know when I am going to be able to get back to this project but it will probably be a couple days. I am picking up a mini ex and dump trailer tomorrow (with my buddy's damn Dodge) so I'll be busy for a couple days. The new CPS from Riff Raff should be here Saturday so I will swap that and as soon as I can and hopefully get back to logging this stuff Monday. I took next week off from work to get some stuff done around the house and this will be added to the list. I do have a question though, what does VPWR stand for and what does it measure/monitor? Again, thank you for all your help.
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