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1961 - 1966 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Slick Sixties Ford Truck

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Old Jul 30, 2020 | 12:10 AM
  #1  
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Generator

My. 64 f 100 with a 292 has a generator. I’ve never owned a vehicle with this. I use the truck for local cruise nights and have no add on items, such as extra lights, stereo etc. should I upgrade to an alternator or will things be fine as is.
 
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Old Jul 30, 2020 | 12:14 AM
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If it's working fine and you don't want to add more accessories why mess with it.
 
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Old Jul 30, 2020 | 06:15 AM
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They work "fine" for some values of fine, they did however get replaced by alternators for a reason.

They are not "maintenance free" like an alternator and require periodic attention, commutator cleaning and brush replacement. When these trucks were daily drivers I'd expect yearly or every other year maybe. For collector cars and trucks they can go for years and years. One complication today though is old cars and trucks usually suffer badly from corroded grounds, cables, and wiring connections.

Charging systems (of any type whether alternator or generator) do not like any resistance whatsoever in the circuit. Generators use a mechanical type regulator with contact point relays for the cutout, voltage, and current. These are also prone eventually to trouble if not carefully cleaned. I will say generator systems work pretty well if setup and maintained, and they are simple to work on, but you're on your own if there's a problem. Nobody at NAPA or anywhere else can help you, they all retired long ago. The shop manual will be a great help if you decide to run it. Most people's eyes glaze over and they swap in a 3G. Kind of want to go through it now, before there's a problem, since a common failure is a stuck cutout relay which means the generator is roasted when the battery backfeeds into the windings at shutdown.
 
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Old Jul 30, 2020 | 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tedster9
They work "fine" for some values of fine, they did however get replaced by alternators for a reason.

They are not "maintenance free" like an alternator and require periodic attention, commutator cleaning and brush replacement. When these trucks were daily drivers I'd expect yearly or every other year maybe. One complication today is old cars and trucks usually suffer badly from corroded grounds, cables, and wiring connections.

Charging systems (of any type whether alternator or generator) do not like any resistance whatsoever in the circuit. Generators use a mechanical type regulator with contact point relays for the cutout, voltage, and current. These are also prone eventually to trouble if not carefully cleaned. I will say they work pretty well if setup and maintained, they are simple to work on, but you're on your own if there's a problem. Nobody at NAPA or anywhere else can help you, they all retired long ago. The shop manual will be a great help if you decide to run it. Most people's eyes glaze over and they swap in a 3G.
Well stated. I'm with Christmas though, if the OP isn't adding any significant power consumers there probably isn't much benefit. Generators are pretty simple machines, they require minimal maintenance to stay reliable, so does the rest of a 50+ year old truck. Follow the owners/service manual for maintenance. I don't see a cruiser needing brush changes every year, not even as a daily driver, may take a peek at the com,brushes, springs and lube the bushings...
At least keeping it stock you can pull a factory service manual or Motors manual and figure it out. 3g conversion is pretty straight forward but still involves some hackery.

I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on generator equiped vehicles in modern times. Never once have I been left of the side of the road because of a generator or mechanical voltage regulator.
 
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Old Jul 30, 2020 | 10:36 AM
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I just got this truck and I plan on replacing both battery cables and replacing all the grounds. I’ll probably add a few as well. A lot of these cables/wires may look good on the outside, but more times then we care to admit, they are rotted on the inside. The basic cables you buy at the local parts store are, in my opinion, to thin. When the heat index is over 100 and your trying to start a hot old motor, you need all the current flowing you can get!
 
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 03:41 AM
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They don't charge much of anything at idle RPMs or just off idle, so the battery has to be big, in terms of reserve capacity.

Unlike alternators, under certain conditions at low RPM the regulator cutout relay disconnects the generator completely, therefore the entire electrical system including lights and accessories is supported only by the battery. A weak, sulfated, or undersized batt will get smoked quickly in stop and go or in the wintertime.

I try to keep the battery 100% plussed up and on a tender to keep it healthy since it doesn't get driven much.

One thing you should probably familiarize yourself beforehand with in a generator system is something called polarization.

When manufactured the generator innards have a slight residual magnetism. This means when the armature starts spinning the electrons move in the direction we want them to and it will start charging.

This magnetism ordinarily is more or less permanent. Much mystery and confusion has arisen about this simple polarization. While polarizing is ordinarily done at the voltage regulator, it is the generator that is being polarized, not the regulator.

Nor is it necessary to polarize the generator every time the battery is disconnected, nor when the regulator is replaced. Even swapping a generator to another engine should not require polarization. On the other hand, it won't hurt anything to polarize a generator, even if it isn't required, provided you do it correctly.

It is usually only necessary to polarize a generator (if the factory shop manual can be believed) when the generator has been rebuilt, and the pole shoes replaced. I've also read if a car has sat for a really long time it will need it. Also, nearby lightning strikes.

Anyway there are (or were) two main types of generator electrical charging systems in use and the Ford uses what's known as type "B". Understand that using the Chrysler or type "A" procedure on a Ford type "B" (or vice versa) could ruin the voltage regulator.

The Ford Shop manual procedure to polarize your Ford generator is (engine OFF) disconnect the field wire and the battery wire from the regulator, momentarily connect the two wires together. Might see a spark, that's OK.

The shop manual goes on:

Do not polarize a generator by any method that applies battery voltage to the field terminal of the regulator, such as shorting from the battery terminal to the field terminal of the regulator, or by connecting a jumper wire directly from the battery to the generator field terminal. This action causes excessive current to flow from the battery through the regulator contacts to ground, thus burning the points.
 
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 07:21 PM
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Generators were replaced by alternators for a reason, they’re inferior and outdated, just like drum brakes.
Update your charging system with a 3G alternator. Super easy to install in one weekend and eliminates the regulator and a bunch of unnecessary wiring.
 
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 08:30 PM
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The whole damn truck is "inferior and outdated". Better get rid of it!
 
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Old Jul 31, 2020 | 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedster9
The whole damn truck is "inferior and outdated". Better get rid of it!
I bought my Uni for $50 in 1984. I’m an ex-factory-trained Ford heavy line tech.
There’s a lot that can be updated while keeping the vehicle as close to stock as possible. I used to replace the brushes in my generator about twice a year, it was tedious. I updated to an alternator in the late 80’s, didn’t touch the charging system for 15 years, except for battery replacement.
Got disc brakes, too. Stops like a dream whether it’s raining or not.
390, C6, 3:00.1 diff, aluminum radiator, electric fan...it’ll run 90 down the highway all day long.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2020 | 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by instig8r63
I used to replace the brushes in my generator about twice a year, it was tedious.
Sounds like you must have used it as a daily driver, with lots of miles to boot. In collector cars and trucks the brushes will last for years and years.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2020 | 08:08 AM
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Here is my reply. Mine is a 64 with a 292 also. The truck has 98782 miles on it. Truck purchased new by inlaws. My wife and I have owned it since about 79 got it from them. I know the entire history of what was done to it prior to my owning it as he was **** with records (mechanic then service mgr for a John Deere dealer) I restored the truck from 2011 to 2015. It has the original 56 year old generator on it with brushes put in once at 86K miles I did it myself in about an hour. All I did was clean it up and paint it during restoration. The only reason they went to alternators was current demand was getting greater on vehicles. My inferior generator as well as the inferior drum brakes have done the job for 56 years and they will continue to do the job for another 56 years just fine. Go ahead and keep the generator. When it stops working rebuild it yourself and run the hell out of it. JMHO
 
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Old Aug 1, 2020 | 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tedster9
Sounds like you must have used it as a daily driver, with lots of miles to boot. In collector cars and trucks the brushes will last for years and years.
It was my daily driver from 1984-2008.
 
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Old Aug 1, 2020 | 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by skidoorulz
Here is my reply. Mine is a 64 with a 292 also. The truck has 98782 miles on it. Truck purchased new by inlaws. My wife and I have owned it since about 79 got it from them. I know the entire history of what was done to it prior to my owning it as he was **** with records (mechanic then service mgr for a John Deere dealer) I restored the truck from 2011 to 2015. It has the original 56 year old generator on it with brushes put in once at 86K miles I did it myself in about an hour. All I did was clean it up and paint it during restoration. The only reason they went to alternators was current demand was getting greater on vehicles. My inferior generator as well as the inferior drum brakes have done the job for 56 years and they will continue to do the job for another 56 years just fine. Go ahead and keep the generator. When it stops working rebuild it yourself and run the hell out of it. JMHO
You can pretend that generators and drum brakes are good, but they aren’t, they’re just ok. Alternators and disc brakes are superior, by a long shot.
I put half a million miles on my drum brake truck before I swapped to discs.
The difference is night and day. I also put later axles and backing plates on the rear for the 2-1/4” shoes.
There’s a reason manufacturers made these “upgrades.”
 
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Old Aug 1, 2020 | 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by instig8r63
You can pretend that generators and drum brakes are good, but they aren’t, they’re just ok. Alternators and disc brakes are superior, by a long shot.
I put half a million miles on my drum brake truck before I swapped to discs.
The difference is night and day. I also put later axles and backing plates on the rear for the 2-1/4” shoes.
There’s a reason manufacturers made these “upgrades.”
All that is fine for a DD but to take out on weekends for ice cream or a show as the OP sounds like he is doing is just fine.
He is in no rush and over taxing any part of the truck, just out for a nice drive.

The ONLY thing I would do is if the truck has a single master cyl.
Loose 1 brake line and you have no brakes! I hated even moving my dad's 63 C10 in the small yard for fear a line would pop and the lines were all new.

Now if used as a DD or he is working the truck like back in the day then yes I can see doing the upgrades.
Also once you make changes it is no longer stock and takes some of the charm of driving an old car or truck.
Just my .02
Dave ----

edit: I was at a show last year and was talking to a fellow about gen & alt and he said his was an alt.
The gen was rebuilt with alt parts to look like a gen. Pretty cool looking setup
 
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Old Aug 1, 2020 | 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by instig8r63
You can pretend that generators and drum brakes are good, but they aren’t, they’re just ok. Alternators and disc brakes are superior, by a long shot.
I put half a million miles on my drum brake truck before I swapped to discs.
The difference is night and day. I also put later axles and backing plates on the rear for the 2-1/4” shoes.
There’s a reason manufacturers made these “upgrades.”
Not pretending anything. I grew up driving stick shift non power anything vehicles and never had a wreck. Yes they have made cars and pickups safer over the years because everything evolves. You don't see steam locomotives daily anymore but when one is restored you don't see them restored with a diesel electric for traction power. I don't drive mine daily and never will but I have never feared it not being safe because it has a single master cylinder or no power steering or power brakes or a generator. Those things worked great for many decades. Build it how you want all I was saying is there is nothing wrong with them the way they were built.
 
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