Hello! I have been lurking on this VERY informative forum for awhile. We bought a beautiful 2015 F150 w 3.5 Ecoboost a few months ago and two weeks ago we came home with a new travel trailer. Guess what? The trailer seems to be too much trailer for our truck- we are newbies and did not take real world towing into account. That's fine, we are sucking it up and moving on, no whining. We are looking to replace our beater 01 Chev Suburban with an older superduty that will be primarily used as the towing vehicle-- I have been reading info on this forum and since we are not mechanically inclined or anything like that, it looks like diesel is not the way for us to go. I've been reading that 2005-2010 v10 gassers (either F250/F350) would be good trucks for our purposes (and meet our budgeted amount, shooting for less than 20k)-- we would be towing on weekends once/twice a month, with the occasional long trip during xmas and summers. Anyway, my question here... we have been looking for gassers with 4.30 axle but I notice that some models state 4.10. Will this serve the same purpose? We are in New Mexico and will be doing some mountain towing, cannot avoid it in this area. So want to be prepared the best we can be-- I know it'll be slow going up grades but the cons of diesel far outweigh the pros at least for us.

Look forward to your input!

OH... in case some of you were curious, the TT is a 2020 Crossroads Cruiser Aire. 6500# dry, 850 tongue weight.

 

Just tossing this out for what it’s worth. I totally agree with folks that lower gear rear end brings with it more grunt, however less grunt worthy ratios don’t stop climbing and go down the grade backwards and you might be able to find a 6.2 gasser with 3.73s in your budget. 4.30s used are a bear to find.

Steve

 

Like Steve says above, if you can fit it in your budget, go with a 6.2l. They are in 2011+ model year trucks.

i have a 2011 F350 6.2l 3.73 gears - handles my loaded 10,000 lb equipment trailer fine.

 

What's going on that the 2015 F150 isn't up to pulling your trailer? Reason I ask is that it seems like a newer F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost is a pretty good tow vehicle rated at 12.5K when properly equipped....you want to be sure that a 2005-2010 F250/F350 is going to get you what you need....

FWIW...my 2015 has the 6.2l and i tend to agreee that you might want to look really hard at a 2011 or newer if you can.

 

I'd look at both the V10 and the V8 (6.2L). Gears aren't going to matter that much for you since you're not using it daily or as a work truck. If it *really* bothers you later you could always have them swapped out, but for a leisure truck, you won't have problems. Just remember gas engines rev high.

 

I know about the F150... best guess is because its lighter (alumnium body) and the trailer is nearly 33 from bumper to tongue. I'd think it might be an one off but looking at other forums that discuss towing with the 2015 F150s, I do see some with the same issues. The F150 is set up with a tow package but its not max tow. I do feel the payload is low, anyway, so no issues moving on to a better TV with a higher payload so we can pile on a generator and other cargo when needed.

Im happy to check out the 6.2l- are they all turbo V8s? I did read elsewhere on this forum that the 2005-2010s v10s were better than the v8s in 2011s and up, but happy to stay flexible if thats not necessarily true.

 

I would think the same but I read that for mountain towing, higher gears give better performance. Am I wrong?

 

6.2s are not turbos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Boss_engine

I have had two V-10s and now have a 6.2. I have nothing bad to say about any of them. The 6.2 is newer technology is one thought I have and I think they have well proven themselves, but if you drop into the 6.2 forum in the Performance section of FTE, you can ask the owners what they think.

Do higher number gears produce more torque? Yes! However, I think johnfist addressed that issue well in terms of how often you will really care. Personally I think a good many folks, if blindfolded, would not be able to tell which engine or rear end ratio they are driving, but that is just my opinion. If you have your heart set on a V-10 with deep gears, by all means buy your choice. I think that would be the best advice I could give you or anyone else.

Personally I have driven a lot of trucks including brands beside the blue oval and have never given a second thought to the rear end ratio. When we have our fifth wheel in tow or our truck camper in the bed, we normally lock out the sixth gear overdrive and when out West we might lock out both overdrives and maybe even 4th when the air gets thin. The transmission behind the 6.2 is a sweetheart and is easy to push button shift manually which a lot of folks choose to do to increase engine braking, etc.

Maybe just get behind the wheel of a couple and see what you think. The hunt is half the fun!

Steve

 

Not turbo charged. The 6.2L has slightly more HP, but about 50ftlb less torque than the V10. Some would argue the Triton V10 is more reliable in the long term than the 6.2, but that could just be the lifespan of the platform having more owners over time? Hard to say.

The gears WILL help, but not significantly enough that for a weekender truck you'll really need to care. If you were doing cross country towing or daily towing, the lifetime of the vehicle you'd probably want the deeper gears.

 

I think johnfist has it pretty well nailed here. I think you would be much better served with the newer truck, as the technology has advanced in them enough where he is right. In a side by side test, if you didn't know which was which, you likely would not be able to tell the difference.

Good luck and happy hunting.

 

Short answer - 4.10 would be an excellent choice...but since most heavy towing is done in direct-drive, you may be just fine with the easier-to-find 3.73 axle.

I am also with you in that I have never liked anything about diesels, except the 12V71 Detroits. My #1 choice would be 5.4 V8 with the V10 in #2 position.

I just bought my first truck on Tuesday the 23rd, a 2001 F250SD. But, I have a background in competitive motorsports and grew up in a restoration shop, so we have done lots of gear swaps. I was happy to find a 5.4 2-V with a 4.30 axle. I put 4.10 or 4.30 in everything anyways. I even put 4.10 in Mom & Pop's Mercury Grand Marquis (when the diff had a noisy bearing) and didn't tell them anything, just re-calibrated the speedo. They are surprised at how much "better the car runs" and it's pulling better MPG.

People will undoubtedly say "Well, you can't apply that logic to a truck."

Maybe not directly, but to properly understand axle ratios, you must take into account both the transmission overdrive ratio and tire diameters, which result in your Final Drive Ratio or FDR.

Example:

One of the first things I did in my daily-driver, stick-shift 2006 Mustang GT was put in 4.30's. I picked up a consistent (over 30 tanks of fuel) 3-5 freeway MPG after the swap and even better in-town MPG numbers. In stock form, the 2006 GT has a 3.55 axle. Combined with the .068 overdrive of the TR3650, that's a lug-worthy 2.41 in 5th gear and a 281 CID V8 doesn't have the torque to pull such a high gear efficiently.

With the 4.30 gears, and the TR3650's .068 overdrive ratio, that equates to a 2.92 final drive ratio (FDR) in 5th gear.

No, let's move onto your questions about a towing vehicle.

A 3.73 axle, combined with the 4R100's .071 overdrive ratio will give you a 2.64 FDR in overdrive. Combine this with the stock tires used on most SD's (My 2001 F250SD has 31.7" Tires and is stock) and your RPM @ 75 is 2,100 rpm. Most people that I know here in SoCal have huge trailers and tow regularly into the desert. I too am a dirt biker and desert explorer, so I know a lot of people in this hobby.

Most everyone I know, even with brand new 7.3 SourSmokes or 6.6 Duracrax tow in direct-drive, meaning not in overdrive. If you find the transmission "hunting" (shifting in and out of overdrive) then towing in direct would be advisable to reduce heat.

So, let's put a 6,500 lb trailer behind your truck (with a 31.7" tire) and a 3.73 axle and we can see that your "virtual F250" are turning 2,900RPM at 75mph out of overdrive. If you tow at 60mph, your rpm would be about 2,400 rpm.

Since we know from research that a 2002 5.4 V8 makes an advertised 350 lbs/ft @ 2500 rpm, having your towing rpm in that range (2,000 to 3,000) would be highly efficient in terms of the vehicle's ability to pull without needing to be downshifted or be constantly in the throttle..

With a 4.10 gear you would be turning 3,300RPM @ 75 in direct and 2,600RPM @ 60mph

With a 4.30 gear you would be turning 3,400RPM @ 75 in direct and 2,700RPM @ 60mph

So, I would not pass up on a truck with a 4.10, but it's highly likely that the 3.73 will do everything you need and more, especially when towing in direct-drive.

HTH....

 

I still say you gotta drive em! I understand all that is being said and would still maintain the average user would have no inkling of the difference in day-to-day driving. I think too many people talk themselves into choices with no first hand experience and end up buying the first one they find. The towing experience really does not boil down to a simple gear ratio or transmission choice.

Again my two cents.

Steve

 

+1, I'm a big fan of driving them (anything) first...but the numbers don't lie...

 

Ah, thanks all. We are finding a lot of 4.10s out there-- I guess that will serve our purposes for the next few years. We are looking at two trucks currently-- one is a 2008 King Ranch 250 srw, almost new E tires but the rear window was idiotically inserted with caulk (looks like crap) and the dealer wont replace/fix. 185k miles, v10. the other is also a king ranch, but its a 2010 350 v10 srw with E tires that has a bit more wear, maybe halfway through, similar mileage. It also has an extra radiator for cooling which is a cool addition, i would think. And its pretty much pristine.

tough decision- go with the cheaper option (the 250 is 14k, the 350 is 19k) or the best one we can find within our budget that should last a little longer... plus the peace of mind with the payload for the 350 would be nice especially since we're near or over capacity with our current f150. The 250 only has 900 lbs more than what the f150 is rated for.

Oh, and the 350 has the 8 box... i really wasnt looking for a 8 box but guess the 38 gal tank will be better for towing, less gas stops ha.

Waiting for the dealer to get back to us if our offer has been accepted, then we will go from there. Really appreciate the info you shared so far. If you have opinons on the bare minimum info ive shared about the 250/350, by all means, shoot. Happy to listen.

and mello yellow, very cool car

 

That really is not much of a trailer you have weightwise. Jump over to the towing forum in the trailer towing section and see what they have to say. I think you will have no problem with either truck. I pull way more weight than you have when our fifth wheel is tagging along and it is like an unstoppable train going down the Interstate and that is with my weinie 6.2 with a 3.73 rear end.

Steve