Conscientious Objection
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From: Calgary Canada
Well MTMD, I'm going to be the first one to side WITH you.
The USA and Canada are FREE countries, and if you don't believe in what they're doing, you should have the right not to participate in it, simple as that.
As for mandatory military service, I also strongly disagree. Military service isn't required to teach responsibility and create maturity, if it happened to work for you, great, but don't force it on others.
I'd also like to point out that military service is most certainly not the only way to support and honour your country.
Waxy
The USA and Canada are FREE countries, and if you don't believe in what they're doing, you should have the right not to participate in it, simple as that.
As for mandatory military service, I also strongly disagree. Military service isn't required to teach responsibility and create maturity, if it happened to work for you, great, but don't force it on others.
I'd also like to point out that military service is most certainly not the only way to support and honour your country.
Waxy
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From: Lenexa, KS
Originally posted by Old Blue Crew
Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly with those who recommend mandatory millitary service for young adults.
Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly with those who recommend mandatory millitary service for young adults.
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From: NC
Originally posted by jskufan
At the very least it might be a helpful prerequisite for our Commander In Chief.
At the very least it might be a helpful prerequisite for our Commander In Chief.
Dan Q
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From: Thomson, GA
I know there is only the slimmist among slim chances that I would be forced to go, I am not the least bit concerned about it, I was just wondering.
And thanks for not tearing me a new one.
And thanks for not tearing me a new one.
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From: Utah
Originally posted by Waxy
...The USA and Canada are FREE countries, and if you don't believe in what they're doing, you should have the right not to participate in it, simple as that... - Waxy
...The USA and Canada are FREE countries, and if you don't believe in what they're doing, you should have the right not to participate in it, simple as that... - Waxy
"Taxation is far greater an evil than theft. It is a form of slavery. If you cannot choose the disposition of your property, you are a slave. If you must ask permission to work, and/or pay involuntary tribute to anyone from your wages, you are a slave. If you are not allowed to dispose of your life (another way of defining money, since it represents portions of your time and effort, which is what your life is composed of) in the time, manner and amount of your choosing, you are a slave." - Rick Tompkins, The Libertarian, August 24, 1997
I'm no Libertarian, and Tompkins is a little over the top, granted. But would we be considered a free people by our respective nation's founders? Just as a test of your hypothesis, "...if you don't believe in what they're doing, you should have the right not to participate in it, simple as that..." refuse your tax man up there, and see how "free" you remain.
And, hey, MTMD, best of luck to you, lad, sincerely. I didn't mean to be mean. You sound like a good guy.
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From: Utah
Originally posted by bigrigfixer
Uh, no.
Uh, no.
"The Canadian Criminal Code punishes hate propaganda, which includes the advocacy of genocide and the public incitement of hatred against persons of the various protected groups.
Statements, oral, written, or recorded, made in an area open to the public by right or by invitation, which promote hatred against any member of a protected group is subject to indictment and a possible two-year jail sentence. Their courts have held that hate speech is destructive of a democratic society, in that it undermines the self-esteem of members of the target group and delegitimizes their participation in the public political forum. As a consequence, the Canadian courts hold that it is justifiable to limit the hate promoter's right to expression in favor of promoting a public environment free of hate and vilification. Many in the US civil rights community see Canada as a model and would like the US to adopt similar hate speech or group defamation laws. " - from an article by Carl Pearlston in the Austin Review, 12/15/99.
I can cite more, but I don't live there (Whew!
), and don't have any firsthand knowledge of whether people have actually been jailed. But I'll find out, I promise.
Where am I going wrong here?
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Waxy, I strongly disagree with your statement.
How did our countries become free? Through the blood of veterans in the past.
You wouldn't participate in a war, because you disagree with the administration.
I've seen you complain about taxes in other threads.
Stop paying your taxes. You don't agree with it. Lets see how long you stay free.
Thats very hypocritical, you wouldn't participate in a war, because you disagree with it, but, you continue to pay your taxes. Another thing you disagree with.
I find your statement very offensive and disrespectful to all veterans, both past and present.
zanny
How did our countries become free? Through the blood of veterans in the past.
You wouldn't participate in a war, because you disagree with the administration.
I've seen you complain about taxes in other threads.
Stop paying your taxes. You don't agree with it. Lets see how long you stay free.
Thats very hypocritical, you wouldn't participate in a war, because you disagree with it, but, you continue to pay your taxes. Another thing you disagree with.
I find your statement very offensive and disrespectful to all veterans, both past and present.
zanny
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Some of you may have hears this quote before....
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
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From: N. Florida - The "No 4x4
Same Guy !!
Hey Wahoo,
I think it was the same person that said: If you want to play - you gotta pay."
. . wasn't it??
I think it was the same person that said: If you want to play - you gotta pay."
. . wasn't it??
Originally posted by wahoo
Some of you may have hears this quote before....
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Some of you may have hears this quote before....
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Last edited by ctfuzzy; Oct 21, 2003 at 08:56 AM.
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From: Thomson, GA
Originally posted by wahoo
Some of you may have hears this quote before....
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
Some of you may have hears this quote before....
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
I mean no disrespect to anyone in the service now or before, but I cannot justify what is going on right now. If there were a reall threat, and I was called, I would not bat an eye (ie Iraq invading our shores).
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From: N. Florida - The "No 4x4
It would *appear* you are discounting the possibility (?probablility?) that you do not have even close to all the pertinent information regarding the conflict (war) and the reasons for it.
Of course, I don't have it either.
Therefore, I have no reasonable choice but to keep my ear to the wall for evidence to the contrary, but behave like I have the ultimate faith that the people who do in fact have all the information, will act in this Nation's (!as a whole!") best interest.
. . know what I mean?
It is a leap of faith - for sure. But one you and me both owe every single person that has ever served and died in the Armed Forces to make.
Of course, I don't have it either.
Therefore, I have no reasonable choice but to keep my ear to the wall for evidence to the contrary, but behave like I have the ultimate faith that the people who do in fact have all the information, will act in this Nation's (!as a whole!") best interest.
. . know what I mean?
It is a leap of faith - for sure. But one you and me both owe every single person that has ever served and died in the Armed Forces to make.
Originally posted by MuchToMyDelight
How is fighting in Iraq keeping us free? I have things I am willing to fight for, but I am certainly not willing to die so the people up top can fill their pockets. Come on dude.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in the service now or before, but I cannot justify what is going on right now. If there were a reall threat, and I was called, I would not bat an eye (ie Iraq invading our shores).
How is fighting in Iraq keeping us free? I have things I am willing to fight for, but I am certainly not willing to die so the people up top can fill their pockets. Come on dude.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in the service now or before, but I cannot justify what is going on right now. If there were a reall threat, and I was called, I would not bat an eye (ie Iraq invading our shores).
Last edited by ctfuzzy; Oct 21, 2003 at 10:41 AM.
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From: Thomson, GA
It is a leap of faith - for sure. But one you and me both owe every single person that has ever served and died in the Armed Forces to make.
It would *appear* you are discounting the possibility (?probablility?) that you do not have even close to all the pertinent information regarding the conflict (war) and the reasons for it