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Yeah, just don’t judge the dirty *** truck. 😁 we mainly have dirt roads around here so shes Pretty old and dirty This what your talking about? Yeah. She’s rusty as hell to. She needs a whole hell of a lot of work. I know. I’m sure I’ll get a comment on the rust, dust, and bull**** everywhere but no my doings. 😒
These trucks go through many different modifications and engine swaps during the life of the truck. Who knows what he has in there. Please take a picture of your distributor. I think if you would have taken a picture of the sticker with more of it in the picture, if it's even readable, we maybe could make out what the truck originally would have had, bit we still need a distributor picture to see what it really has in it.
Looks like a TFI dist. to me and with no box on the fender well and the sticker saying it was a feed back system from the factory it has to be TFI no?
So we can install any 2v carb even if not a feed back to get this puppy running then look into that TFI dist. to really get the puppy running right.
Looks like a swap to a non-feed back system like we do on the 300 six trucks.
Dave ----
So this carb will work on it? It is back in one piece but I’m not home to take a picture of it. This is the one I took off. It did have the two hook ups on the truck for it.. I was told it wasn’t the original carb and it was for a V6.. But both carbs are rebuilt. The
the problem I was having with the carb in the top picture was the choke would never fully open.. shed open enough to run but not fully and she stayed idled high.. I could hear her trying to idle down but she wouldn’t... even after running for 15-20 mins.. She did have the inline fuel pump on and I found out it had way to much pressure so I just put on a new mechanical fuel pump..
Also it’s covered now 😁 I know I’ve read some things saying it won’t run without the hook ups on the carb so I’m not sure if I should put the one I originally took off or the one in the top picture and go from there.. Either way getting her to crank up took a bit with either carb but that was before the new fuel pump.
i guess I’ll try both and see where it goes.. I’m just trying to learn what I can with it. You hear so much back and fourth about it can work without being hooked up and no it won’t it has to be hooked up that I’m lost
This is the carb I know works good but it doesn’t have the hook up for the EEC IV so I didn’t know if the truck would run right with it on.. She did crank up (before the new fuel pump) but like I said wouldn’t idle down.. So I assumed after learning about the EEC IV that maybe that’s why she wouldn’t? But I’m not sure just trying to get her running right and don’t want to put a carb that won’t let her run right and assume it’s because of something else and replace a bunch of parts for no reason
Looks like a TFI dist. to me and with no box on the fender well and the sticker saying it was a feed back system from the factory it has to be TFI no?
So we can install any 2v carb even if not a feed back to get this puppy running then look into that TFI dist. to really get the puppy running right.
Looks like a swap to a non-feed back system like we do on the 300 six trucks.
Dave ----
No feedback carbs don't have to be TFI EECI , EEC II, and EEC III can be non TFI and feedback, this little gem is a 2150 carbed EEC IV (wonderfull).
And thanks to Dave F for pulling that up we never used a 2150 EEC IV and was not even aware Ford used a 2150 with EEC IV and have zero exposure to it.. This looks to be a real oddball even more so than EEC III. And I was a fool making that blanket statement.
After doing some research and a couple of phone calls about the general consensus is the ignition portion of the ECU "MAY" be compartmentalized as the system has no knock sensor. Meaning it will operate like a DS II system and is not dependent on other sensor inputs other than what is gets from the dist for timing advance and dwell much like TFI-II and III.
If this is the case (testing will be required) then I would strive to keep the TFI system intact. As it will be better than anything (short of DS -1 and that will just be equivalent) you could replace it with.
First things first pull the codes and see what is actually working (it will be the same as other EEC IV codes) we know there will be a TPS code, but see what else is still working.
The next step will be to get a timing light and check the base timing, like other EEC-IV systems you will need to pull the spout. Once that thas been verified plug the sput back on and slowly rev the engine up to 5000 RPM and look for timing advance Note the advance in 500RPM increments starting at 1000 RPM.
This test will then need to be repeated with ALL the sensor inputs disconnected. EGR ECT O2 TPS MAP (TPS is already gone). If the results are the same then the Ignition system portion of the ECU is compartmentalized. And you can run the non-feed back carb.
The other option is to restore it all back to original but sourcing bits may be difficult.
This is the carb I know works good but it doesn’t have the hook up for the EEC IV so I didn’t know if the truck would run right with it on.. She did crank up (before the new fuel pump) but like I said wouldn’t idle down.. So I assumed after learning about the EEC IV that maybe that’s why she wouldn’t? But I’m not sure just trying to get her running right and don’t want to put a carb that won’t let her run right and assume it’s because of something else and replace a bunch of parts for no reason
In my experience so far with these things, you can pick whichever carb you think would work the best, and put it on there. The engine will run ok with the wires not hooked up. I am running a v6 system like this myself with the original EECIV carb with no wires hooked up and it runs fine. Maybe not ideal but I can't see any problems and I am getting 17 mpg. BUT I did convert my distributor over, so that is partly the reason why it runs fine and gets half decent mileage.
On this system, it has less control over the fueling than the same system does with fuel injection. I would imagine your carbs would also have the idle control motor on them at one time, though I don't see it in the pictures mounted on the carb. The computer controlled the idle speed also. This is the one thing that was a little difficult for me to get around on my electronic carb. On a regular carb they have fast idle steps, really fast, sort of fast and the lowest fast idle steps for the choke. On the electronic carb they only have one step, the very fast step. After that the computer took over the idle speed using the little motor. With the computer gone, I only had very fast idle and then regular idle, so at certain times it would try and stall on me till it was fully warmed up.
What I did the other day which seems to work ok, I took the computer cam off, and ground my own medium speed step in it with a grinder. There is another screw adjustment in there on a piece of white plastic, that screw adjusts the ratio choke opening to how much speed the engine has. I turned this all the way one direction so it would use my new medium step on the cam, and now I have a medium speed on the choke before it goes directly to the regular slow idle. Seems to be working so far.
After doing some research and a couple of phone calls about the general consensus is the ignition portion of the ECU "MAY" be compartmentalized as the system has no knock sensor. Meaning it will operate like a DS II system and is not dependent on other sensor inputs other than what is gets from the dist for timing advance and dwell much like TFI-II and III.
If this is the case (testing will be required) then I would strive to keep the TFI system intact. As it will be better than anything (short of DS -1 and that will just be equivalent) you could replace it with..
That would be good if we could actually verify what works when this system has had a lobotomy. Going by what I have heard from others it does go into some sort of limp home mode. From what I am told, the TFI can fire the ignition system fine and run the engine. But it only fires it at base timing. The computer uses the spout signal to tell the TFI how to modify when the spark events occur.
The TFI already has a rpm signal, and it sends this to the computer also. So in theory it could reproduce the centrifugal advance curve for the engine. But I believe the computer also looked at the throttle position, and the MAP sensor, to decide also on the advance, and somewhat simulate the vacuum advance on the old distributor.
The question is if it loses the tps and the MAP, does the computer give up and no longer gives any spout signals to the TFI? Like you said, a simple test with some unplugged wires and a timing light would verify that.
That would be good if we could actually verify what works when this system has had a lobotomy. Going by what I have heard from others it does go into some sort of limp home mode. From what I am told, the TFI can fire the ignition system fine and run the engine. But it only fires it at base timing. The computer uses the spout signal to tell the TFI how to modify when the spark events occur.
The TFI already has a rpm signal, and it sends this to the computer also. So in theory it could reproduce the centrifugal advance curve for the engine. But I believe the computer also looked at the throttle position, and the MAP sensor, to decide also on the advance, and somewhat simulate the vacuum advance on the old distributor.
The question is if it loses the tps and the MAP, does the computer give up and no longer gives any spout signals to the TFI? Like you said, a simple test with some unplugged wires and a timing light would verify that.
If the TPS and MAP are lost the ignition won't just quit. It will still work.
The question then becomes in what capacity. It does not need the TPS no ignition requires a throttle position input to function. What is more important is the MAP and that as you noted may be needed for cruise advance as but the ECM can extrapolate cruise conditions with just RPM feedback, supposedly. This system has very a conservative ignition advance due to the lack of a knock sensor. The MAP is primarily used for EGR control in this system since the EGR functions are controlled by the ECU (just like in EFI).
But a base needs to be established before any that can be checked. Step one has to be seeing what is still (if any of it) is still functional given the OP 's statement of it being a train wreck.
And then to see what capacity the system will operate in with sensor inputs disabled. That has to be done first.
The ideal situation would be to have the whole system functional. And this may be doable. As it is simpler than EEC III and the ECC IV carbed units w/fuel-air control.. Provided none of the controlled components have grenaded and all the sensors are in place. This should be pretty straight forward to get it back into operation. But barring that baselines need to be established to see if the system can remain in place in and still function with portions of the system disabled. Although this is EEC IV the parameters of it's operation are different than systems with air-fuel control.
To remove the system completely will be a fair bit of work and if that can be avoided it probably should.
To remove the system completely will be a fair bit of work and if that can be avoided it probably should.
We also have to take in consideration reality. We have guys writing in with varying degrees of knowledge, some can turn a wrench, and most of them don't want a degree in emissions and electronic controls. And 99% of the time they are writing in not because they have a complete system, but because most of it has been ripped out and doesn't even exist, and they have gotten this truck in a "deal" because it didn't run correctly. It's my belief in these cases it's easier to swap the older stuff in and get it running again like the older systems.
We also have to take in consideration reality. We have guys writing in with varying degrees of knowledge, some can turn a wrench, and most of them don't want a degree in emissions and electronic controls. And 99% of the time they are writing in not because they have a complete system, but because most of it has been ripped out and doesn't even exist, and they have gotten this truck in a "deal" because it didn't run correctly. It's my belief in these cases it's easier to swap the older stuff in and get it running again like the older systems.
YOU need to take into consideration that is why we are here, none of the testing required is complicated or difficult and if you can use a DVOM to check voltage and resistance anyone can do it, if you can follow instructions. There is no need to make it more complicated than it is as often happens on this board with people going off in 15 different directions and making it more complicated than it needs to be when trying to come to a solution. This system is pretty simple and far simpler than vac controlled systems and this system and fuel-air controlled feedback systems that will no longer really function correctly due to the changes in gasoline. You have no idea what is present in this case nor do it. And now I suspect the OP is not going to respond any longer as people have once again made was a relatively simple step by step seem overly daunting. And now NO ONE gets to see the resolution or the fix..
