6.7 diesel motor toast-advice needed-Ford Dlr told me motor shot at 11k
#31
02-20-2020, 11:38 AM
Suddenly, my DW issue seems quaint and trivial.
The beauty of the CP4 issue is that it's ubiquitous across the manufacturers. Bosch did an amazing job of selling its product, but a fairly dreadful job of actually designing it for its intended use. My brother had a 2016 GMC Denali Duramax that had an exploded CP4 pump at ~45,000 miles. He was driving from WA to KY and it blew in KS. GM covered it under warranty, but the repair (including getting parts) was a 3-week job. What do you do then ... stranded in KS for 3 weeks? He traded it in on a new 2018 so he could keep moving.
Just like the DW, the manufacturers have learned an important lesson: if you have a critical design flaw, don't fix it ... double-down on that mistake, pass the pain to the customer, and begin building out your defense strategy.
The beauty of the CP4 issue is that it's ubiquitous across the manufacturers. Bosch did an amazing job of selling its product, but a fairly dreadful job of actually designing it for its intended use. My brother had a 2016 GMC Denali Duramax that had an exploded CP4 pump at ~45,000 miles. He was driving from WA to KY and it blew in KS. GM covered it under warranty, but the repair (including getting parts) was a 3-week job. What do you do then ... stranded in KS for 3 weeks? He traded it in on a new 2018 so he could keep moving.
Just like the DW, the manufacturers have learned an important lesson: if you have a critical design flaw, don't fix it ... double-down on that mistake, pass the pain to the customer, and begin building out your defense strategy.
Between stressing about the CP4, Emissions (DEF) issues, fuel additives and looking for quality fuel, I went back to a 6.2 and could not be happier. For the price of diesel injectors alone, I can replace my current motor for less. This is not to bash on the diesel engine as I loved the power of everyone I have owned.
#33
02-20-2020, 12:51 PM
#34
02-20-2020, 01:30 PM
Your insurance will want to go after Ford as to a.) why it never set off a water in Fuel warning light, b.) can you show you drained the water separator, changed Fuel filter when it was supposed to be changed? Best case would be the dealers did all your services and they would have to prove this to your insurer. All reports from services mention no issues with water in fuel, check engine light or stored codes of any kind that can be linked back? If they scrubbed it, then insurer will be able to argue this when they subrogate. Absolutely no other codes, engine issues, noises, concerns, this is on Ford for not having a proper water detection? Before you take that truck home, you need insurance to pay the bill. Your insurance will want all your fuel receipts as well, this will really help them to find hte issue. Last 5 fuel stations should be checked for water. I wonder if someone dosed your fuel tank with water? Locking fuel cap?
#35
02-20-2020, 01:34 PM
#36
02-20-2020, 07:16 PM
If water is the culprit, how is it getting past the water separator? Last July I had a five week episode of a crank over but no start, dealership was stumped, no codes, nothing, THEN they tried the water in fuel story...............LONG story short, turned out to be a bad fuel pump control module. So much for "their" water in fuel theory.
They replaced the part under warranty (msrp $35) truck has been fine since.
They replaced the part under warranty (msrp $35) truck has been fine since.
#37
02-20-2020, 07:39 PM
#40
02-21-2020, 10:19 AM
more on the subject of emulsifiers vs de-emulsifiers
https://opti-lube.com/blog/emulsifier-vs-demulsifier/
https://opti-lube.com/blog/emulsifier-vs-demulsifier/
#41
02-21-2020, 11:38 AM
The water/fuel separator can only take on so much water before its inundated. Then water gets to the CP4 pump. Then the pump destroys itself the moment water comes in. Putting DEF in the diesel tank will do the same as DEF is mostly water and ammonia.
I still lay fault at the hands of Ford. A warning should be giving when the water/fuel separator is 1/2-3/4 full. Or take it a step farther and have the truck shut off when the Water/fuel separator gets to 2/3-3/4 full.
I dont know exactly how the water/fuel separator works. It may fill up too quickly to be intervened. But i doubt thats the case.
As far as a new engine goes. That seems excessive. What rusted? Piston rings? The pump had to stop pumping as soon as water got to it. Therefore, not that much H2O should have gotten into the engine to cause catastrophic engine failure. It didnt blow up the CP4 pump and then keep pumping a bunch of water into the engine. Pumps blown up. No way to get anything into the engine after the pump blows.
at worst i could see having to pull the crank and pistons to replace the rings.
many others have experienced this CP4 failure from water contamination but i have never read any post of a entirely new engine from this.
Get more opinions from other Ford service centers
I still lay fault at the hands of Ford. A warning should be giving when the water/fuel separator is 1/2-3/4 full. Or take it a step farther and have the truck shut off when the Water/fuel separator gets to 2/3-3/4 full.
I dont know exactly how the water/fuel separator works. It may fill up too quickly to be intervened. But i doubt thats the case.
As far as a new engine goes. That seems excessive. What rusted? Piston rings? The pump had to stop pumping as soon as water got to it. Therefore, not that much H2O should have gotten into the engine to cause catastrophic engine failure. It didnt blow up the CP4 pump and then keep pumping a bunch of water into the engine. Pumps blown up. No way to get anything into the engine after the pump blows.
at worst i could see having to pull the crank and pistons to replace the rings.
many others have experienced this CP4 failure from water contamination but i have never read any post of a entirely new engine from this.
Get more opinions from other Ford service centers
Just use a filter that is screen small enough to not let water molecules pass.
When fuel injection started showing up in cars in the 80's that is how Chrysler handled the water in fuel issue (probably the others as well).
Filter sock on the pickup was too fine to allow water.
#42
02-21-2020, 12:08 PM
more on the subject of emulsifiers vs de-emulsifiers
https://opti-lube.com/blog/emulsifier-vs-demulsifier/
https://opti-lube.com/blog/emulsifier-vs-demulsifier/
The link I posted didn't seem to suggest one over the other, but these guys have a definite opinion on which is better.
So, what is the general consensus on this forum, emulsifier or demulsifier?
#43
02-21-2020, 12:28 PM
Ford specifies a demulsifier such that the water droplets are large enough they CANT go through the water separator. If you add a emulsifier the water droplets are small enough to go through, which is what does all the damage. Water is naturally immisible in diesel fuel. If the fuel station treated with a water emulsifier (to cover up an issue) that would explain how the fuel was contaminated with water, the water in fuel light didn't come on, and the damage was done. The WIF measures conductivity and this explains no light, no codes. This is what the insurer needs to no to subrogate damages on your behalf.
#44
02-21-2020, 12:50 PM
Lead Driver
#45
02-22-2020, 08:34 AM
Between stressing about the CP4, Emissions (DEF) issues, fuel additives and looking for quality fuel, I went back to a 6.2 and could not be happier. For the price of diesel injectors alone, I can replace my current motor for less. This is not to bash on the diesel engine as I loved the power of everyone I have owned.