yeah and 210 HP from 5.8 liters is a great power to displacement ratio? I'd much rather 245-250 from 5.9 but have a ton of torque. My Bronco's 5.0 pulls just as hard or as much weight as my buddies fathers 5.8 of the same year.

 

the shear numbers are what makes the difference buddy the 5.8 is tons more powerful than the 5.0 anyone will tell you that i know that gearing makes a huge difference also


that is why the 4.9 inline 6 guys swear those engines are torque monsters when in acuality they arent



it is all in the way the power is put to the pavement

 

THe 4.9L engine is very torquey. It doesn't make the peak torque that the 5.0 does but it makes it much lower in the RPM range. That is why they feel so much more powerful than the 5.0L. I have driven several combinations of both.

 

I say that because the engine is only one part of the truck. Facts are facts. Dodge's old 318 and 360 are two of the most durable light truck engines ever made but the worst vehicles I've ever owned have been Dodge's.

I owned two Dakota's, a '90 3.9L V6 and a '93 318 and both of those were bulletproof good trucks. I also owned an Avenger and an '00 Ram/318 and both of those vehicles were pure pieces of reeking junk. Dumped the Ram at 9K miles after the piston in the power steering pump broke twice. The second time my wife was driving and she nearly wrecked it. Luckily it went off the road in an open area and there was nothing to hit. Both were just plagued with numerous small problems, the Avenger especially with electrical/computer issues that just never seemed to get fixed after several trips for service.

We owned several Ford/GM products between us and although some of them were less than perfect none seemed to have anything like the downtime that the Dodge rides did. Nowhere near it.

I love the old 318-one of my favorite engines but I'll probably never own another becuase unless I find a used Dakota to buy as a beater I doubt I'll ever go with a Dodge again. Sorry but that's just my experience.

BTW-the only things Dodge and Ford's V10 have in common is the # of cylinders and they both burn gas. Ford's V10 is 15% smaller displacement and works at higher rpm. Saying one is a copy of the other is like saying one manufacturer uses a V8 engine becuase a competing manufacturer uses a V8.

 

good point on your last paragraph

 

Some of you act like 300HP is all ford can get out of the engine. They could easily have them make over 650HP and 500 ft/lbs of torque. That's not what its all about. These are TRUCK engines!

 

another good point

 

True they are, but the more HP you get the more Torque you will get.

I'm not sure if you guys are implying that I said the V10's were the same, all I was saying was that after Dodge put a V10 gas engine in a truck Ford followed suit.

 

Not even close on the point about getting more torque with more HP. Hp is a product of torque and RPM, it can not be measured directly. The formula is this, troque X RPM/5252=HP developed at that RPM. That is why the Hemi gets 45 more HP than the 3V Triton but only 10 more ft'lbs. The higher RPM's that you can peak your torque at decides how much HP you get. This is what will make the new Triton a great motor, the fact that it pulls hard from right off idle to over 5k RPM's where the Hemi's and Chevy's have to rev up before they start to get any power going. It all comes down to how the motor is set up. If ford wanted to put out the high HP numbers that Dodge did they could have easily done it with a change in cam and timing, but then it would have lost the low end grunt that you want out of a truck.
As far as Ford following Dodge and Dodge changing the rules, how did Dodge change the rules? Even after the 94 redesign, it was still the worst selling of the big 3 and had the same old carry over motors. True its sales increased, but only the first year. It was just something different, not necissarily better. Ford's redesign didn't come till 3 years later and was nothing even similar to Dodge, and then two years after that they came out with the Super Duty that maybe after a few beers started to look like a dodge in the front end.

 

oh i don't know, more powerful engines, the first V10 in a truck, quieter interiors, better ride, higher towing and payload capacities, better aerodynamics, and overall a truck that was more solid and comfortable to drive than any other at the time. This is what made chevy and ford change their designs, since all ford basically did since 84 was change the nose on their trucks, add some power windows and locks and fuel injection on their trucks, lets not forget the airbag. Oh and chevy basically did the same thing since 88-98. Dodge completely redesigned their truck from the ground up minus the engines which they increased the power and torque. It wasn't till Dodge changed their design that Ford and Chevy decided to change theirs. Sales has nothing to do with "changing the rules" but the fact that because of that model we have all of the new models of today the way they are is how they changed the rules. It forced the other manufacturers to make a truck that everyone would enjoy driving, because it didn't feel like you were driving a truck.

 

I think dodge is making a mistake with changing their V10, that is by far the best V10 on the market as far as i have seen and from what i have been told, sheer work horse. Somebody say something about dodges not being reliable? I own a 1998 cummins 3/4 ton 5 speed that has literally had a 6-7000 lb. load on a gooseneck trailer on it probly 3/4 of its life and i have gone thru ONE (and it was partly my fault for trying to pull to much) transmission, thats it, which for as much work as i do with the thing is exceptional, i KNOW the 7.3, 6.0, 6.5, or 6.6 litre diesels could not even come close. How do i know this? I have friends who have theirs in the shop all the time that dont pull half as often or half the weight that i do (especially the durmax, poor guy has gone thru 2 tranny's in 6 months). My 1998 cummins still gets 20-21 hiway not pulling and 15-17 with a full load on. I have not made ANY adjustments to ANYthing on it. I also drive a 1997 dodge 1/2 ton 318 and i have not had to make one repair to it so far and it is at 97000 miles. I dont know about you guys but where i come from trucks REALLY get worked, and i mean hard, and so far i am most impressed with my Cummins of anything i have ever owned (had a 96 454 3/4 ton, and a 95 7.3 3/4 ton before that, couldnt ever get them out of the shop)

 

I don't think anyone here will argue that the cummins is a great engine. Good to see your truck (s) have been treating you well.

 

That may be true, but he makes good points.

The 5.9 pretty weak?? The Cummins?? I don't think so. I wouldn't consider 305 HP / 555 lb-ft pretty weak. My Dodge will run circles around the previous two Fords I had.....loaded or unloaded.

I still like Ford though....and Dodge.

 

Thanks for the compliment Hoss. I've been reading a lot over at the Dodge boards and it seems Dodge has some power coming out in the near future...

I'm lovin these times

 

Since this whole thread is filled with more opinions than facts, I'll throw mine in too.

Dodge did change the rules in '94, coming out with a much nicer looking truck. Whether you like the design or not is not important, the fact is, it was different, and it forced Ford & Chevy to say, "Oh ^&&*^!" and rush up to redesign changes.

As for engines, Dodge has been behind with the 360 for some time now, but their deal with Cummins was one of the smartest moves. Ford & especially Chevy really don't have a brand name like Cummins to stand on. Whether you like the Cummins or not is not important, the important thing is that a lot of people do, and it was a money maker for Dodge, and let's admit, overall cummins makes some darn good engines.

As for the Hemi, people bash it hard, a lot simply because of the marketing Dodge is doing with it so people hate it. The truth is, it is true it isn't the best engine for towing, but I had a 5.9L before this and it's not like the 5.7L Hemi just sucks compared to it. I'd take the Hemi over my 5.9L in a heartbeat. Dodge could give it some more power down low, but honestly the biggest thing is DC needs to get rid of the cruddy computer controls which seriously hinder the engines ability in all situations IMO.

Dodge trannys have sucked for a long time, that's no news. Hopefully the new tranny with the Hemi is going to prove better... I pray cause that's what I have.

However, Ford engines I can't say I've been impressed with at all over the 3 or 4 I've had. I refused to get a Ford for the reason of past experience with them, but I really like the SuperDuty's and hope their reliability is high. If I bought a Ford, that would be it, although I have to admit I LOVE the styling of the new F-150's.

Chevy totally loses all bets in design changes as they have very little that is unique. The newest models which just came out however are a step in the right direction. They have a very high resale value, and are at the top of overall reliability in my book, they just seriously need to do some redesigning I think.

They have a vehicle lineup that I think is WAY too big, and they need to make a much larger distinction in their trucks between the 2wd & 4wd ful-size trucks, as well as the normal trucks and heavy duty trucks. It's very hard to tell the difference between them. Ford did a great thing with their Superduty series IMO. Dodge's already look super hefty, but they need to tweak the body a little more to make a larger distinction IMO.