standard or high volume pump?
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 5
standard or high volume pump?
Oil pump kit .... $30
New "stock" oil pump .... $24 - $33 (don't know why you would by a kit)
High Volume ... (guessing they use a stock pickup tube ??) Melling, Enginetech, Sealed Power .... $73 - $82
Any reason to use a high volume pump?
My thinking (don't know if I am on the right track) ... open clearances on an old engine ... more oil might help "fill" the gap ?????
As I said in my other posts ... may as well change anything (well without ripping down the engine ... that I can (putting in a new pan seal and rear seal) before putting this 33 year old engine back into the truck (1986 F150 4.9)
I am soooo sorry for so many questions ... just don't have anyone around me to ask.
Thanks so much again !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
New "stock" oil pump .... $24 - $33 (don't know why you would by a kit)
High Volume ... (guessing they use a stock pickup tube ??) Melling, Enginetech, Sealed Power .... $73 - $82
Any reason to use a high volume pump?
My thinking (don't know if I am on the right track) ... open clearances on an old engine ... more oil might help "fill" the gap ?????
As I said in my other posts ... may as well change anything (well without ripping down the engine ... that I can (putting in a new pan seal and rear seal) before putting this 33 year old engine back into the truck (1986 F150 4.9)
I am soooo sorry for so many questions ... just don't have anyone around me to ask.
Thanks so much again !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Oil pump kit .... $30
New "stock" oil pump .... $24 - $33 (don't know why you would by a kit)
High Volume ... (guessing they use a stock pickup tube ??) Melling, Enginetech, Sealed Power .... $73 - $82
Any reason to use a high volume pump?
My thinking (don't know if I am on the right track) ... open clearances on an old engine ... more oil might help "fill" the gap ?????
As I said in my other posts ... may as well change anything (well without ripping down the engine ... that I can (putting in a new pan seal and rear seal) before putting this 33 year old engine back into the truck (1986 F150 4.9)
I am soooo sorry for so many questions ... just don't have anyone around me to ask.
Thanks so much again !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
New "stock" oil pump .... $24 - $33 (don't know why you would by a kit)
High Volume ... (guessing they use a stock pickup tube ??) Melling, Enginetech, Sealed Power .... $73 - $82
Any reason to use a high volume pump?
My thinking (don't know if I am on the right track) ... open clearances on an old engine ... more oil might help "fill" the gap ?????
As I said in my other posts ... may as well change anything (well without ripping down the engine ... that I can (putting in a new pan seal and rear seal) before putting this 33 year old engine back into the truck (1986 F150 4.9)
I am soooo sorry for so many questions ... just don't have anyone around me to ask.
Thanks so much again !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
Yes the high volume will help if you have larger clearances. Make sure it is an actual high volume pump and not just a higher pressure pump being passed off as higher volume.
Tuned
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 396
Likes: 5
From: Ottawa, Canada
I've heard that as clearances open you need to increase oil flow or viscosity exponentially. Dont know for sure if that's true.
Also how much stress does it put on the shaft, roll pin and distributor gears? A number of people here have had those problems on stock oil pumps I think.
Also how much stress does it put on the shaft, roll pin and distributor gears? A number of people here have had those problems on stock oil pumps I think.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 5
Hmmmm all good questions!
So ... I only have the gauge that came in the truck.
It reads about 1/4 to 1/2 (no numbers on it).
This was were my last motor read also on the same gauge (till is spun a bearing and read zero when it got warm) ... I have no idea how accurate it is
Rock Auto list "high volume/pressure" ... but I noticed all the pumps say "high volume"
I am assuming all three brands (Melling, Enginetech and Sealed Power are reputable and really are high volume? ... Funny though, in the picture they all look "stock" ... would have assumed they had a larger (longer) gear.
I am still running 5w-30 (don't know what the guy who had the engine before me ran in it).
The cam gears should be no problem .... I am upgrading it to an aluminum one.
The roll pin on the distributor is another story. I have had one break in the past.
I wonder how much extra force it takes to drive a high volume pump ??????
Any and all thoughts and advice is welcome!
Thanks .... Mike
So ... I only have the gauge that came in the truck.
It reads about 1/4 to 1/2 (no numbers on it).
This was were my last motor read also on the same gauge (till is spun a bearing and read zero when it got warm) ... I have no idea how accurate it is
Rock Auto list "high volume/pressure" ... but I noticed all the pumps say "high volume"
I am assuming all three brands (Melling, Enginetech and Sealed Power are reputable and really are high volume? ... Funny though, in the picture they all look "stock" ... would have assumed they had a larger (longer) gear.
I am still running 5w-30 (don't know what the guy who had the engine before me ran in it).
The cam gears should be no problem .... I am upgrading it to an aluminum one.
The roll pin on the distributor is another story. I have had one break in the past.
I wonder how much extra force it takes to drive a high volume pump ??????
Any and all thoughts and advice is welcome!
Thanks .... Mike
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
1st thing is to get an accurate mechanical oil pressure gauge plumbed in and check it hot, idle and 2000 RPM using the factory fill multi-viscosity oil recommendation. Is it 5w-30?
Somewhere along the way Ford started installing, no I'm not making this up - a "dummy gauge" - along with a 20 ohm resistor, so it won't peg. It doesn't do really anything so far as an accurate indication of oil pressure. Not sure if you have one of the counterfeit gauges or not, but an external mechanical oil pressure test gauge is under $20 delivered, complete with DeLuxe blow-molded plastic case and array of adapter fittings. Always measure, don't guess!
Somewhere along the way Ford started installing, no I'm not making this up - a "dummy gauge" - along with a 20 ohm resistor, so it won't peg. It doesn't do really anything so far as an accurate indication of oil pressure. Not sure if you have one of the counterfeit gauges or not, but an external mechanical oil pressure test gauge is under $20 delivered, complete with DeLuxe blow-molded plastic case and array of adapter fittings. Always measure, don't guess!
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 5
I completely agree I need a real gauge but by then it will be too late to change the pump.
I am swapping engines now (long story but mine with 250K spun a bearing ... found one at a wrecker for $400 ... had a guy put it in ... he put the clutch in wrong so I pulled it out myself .... decided to fix everything I told him to ... and he didn't .... while it is out.
So I am putting on a new pan gasket and rear main (both leaking) ... new timing gears (steel and alum cam gear) ... just deciding on a stock pump or a high volume pump.
I am also throwing on a water pump and thermostat.
Short of pulling the entire engine down, I think this should keep it going for a while.
Thanks .... Mike
PS ... once it is together, I would like a "real" oil gauge and a "real" temperature gauge. The biggest use of this truck is plowing out the driveway all winter .... snowing here in VT today!
I am swapping engines now (long story but mine with 250K spun a bearing ... found one at a wrecker for $400 ... had a guy put it in ... he put the clutch in wrong so I pulled it out myself .... decided to fix everything I told him to ... and he didn't .... while it is out.
So I am putting on a new pan gasket and rear main (both leaking) ... new timing gears (steel and alum cam gear) ... just deciding on a stock pump or a high volume pump.
I am also throwing on a water pump and thermostat.
Short of pulling the entire engine down, I think this should keep it going for a while.
Thanks .... Mike
PS ... once it is together, I would like a "real" oil gauge and a "real" temperature gauge. The biggest use of this truck is plowing out the driveway all winter .... snowing here in VT today!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Hmmmm all good questions!
So ... I only have the gauge that came in the truck.
It reads about 1/4 to 1/2 (no numbers on it).
This was were my last motor read also on the same gauge (till is spun a bearing and read zero when it got warm) ... I have no idea how accurate it is
Rock Auto list "high volume/pressure" ... but I noticed all the pumps say "high volume"
I am assuming all three brands (Melling, Enginetech and Sealed Power are reputable and really are high volume? ... Funny though, in the picture they all look "stock" ... would have assumed they had a larger (longer) gear.
I am still running 5w-30 (don't know what the guy who had the engine before me ran in it).
The cam gears should be no problem .... I am upgrading it to an aluminum one.
The roll pin on the distributor is another story. I have had one break in the past.
I wonder how much extra force it takes to drive a high volume pump ??????
Any and all thoughts and advice is welcome!
Thanks .... Mike
So ... I only have the gauge that came in the truck.
It reads about 1/4 to 1/2 (no numbers on it).
This was were my last motor read also on the same gauge (till is spun a bearing and read zero when it got warm) ... I have no idea how accurate it is
Rock Auto list "high volume/pressure" ... but I noticed all the pumps say "high volume"
I am assuming all three brands (Melling, Enginetech and Sealed Power are reputable and really are high volume? ... Funny though, in the picture they all look "stock" ... would have assumed they had a larger (longer) gear.
I am still running 5w-30 (don't know what the guy who had the engine before me ran in it).
The cam gears should be no problem .... I am upgrading it to an aluminum one.
The roll pin on the distributor is another story. I have had one break in the past.
I wonder how much extra force it takes to drive a high volume pump ??????
Any and all thoughts and advice is welcome!
Thanks .... Mike
Go to the manufacturer's website for each pump they should list the specifications for the pumps. If it s not listed shoot them an email and they will be able to tell you everything you need to know and if an upgraded pump drive is suggested.. Higher volume pumps do not add that much more stress to the pump drive shaft unless they are full-on race high volume pumps.. It is the higher pressure pumps that really increase the stress on the pump drive shaft the power to drive them squares with pressure increase. High volume just has the capability to deliver more oil at the same given pressure. And generally, this means a deeper rotor on gear rotor pumps and same with gear pumps. They will also allow you to run a lighter oil since you are running a 5W30 and if it is an appropriate synthetic the motor will benefit from the high volume pump as these motors had larger clearances than modern motors and syns tend to be quite a bit lower viscosity. The Melling M-74HV is a standard pressure high volume pump.
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 5
Fantastic!!!!!!!
Great explanation!
Since the truck is 33 years old and this may be the last time an engine is put in it, I want to make it last as long as possible.
I figured Melling was safe ... good trusted name. The Melling is the lowest cost at $74 ,, Sealed Power the highest at $82.
5W-30 is what was on the label so it is what I have been using.
I think it probably helps those cold starts ... he have had a few mornings of -30 ... and we only average 5 days in the 90's each year.
Thanks so much again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great explanation!
Since the truck is 33 years old and this may be the last time an engine is put in it, I want to make it last as long as possible.
I figured Melling was safe ... good trusted name. The Melling is the lowest cost at $74 ,, Sealed Power the highest at $82.
5W-30 is what was on the label so it is what I have been using.
I think it probably helps those cold starts ... he have had a few mornings of -30 ... and we only average 5 days in the 90's each year.
Thanks so much again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 5
Sorry for posting again .... just wanted to double check ....
I got two private e-mails saying "a high volume pump will suck the sump dry .... I destroyed an engine this way ..."
So I put two e-mails in ... one to Melling and one to Enginetech.
Melling said to use the HV pump ... should work well in an old engine ...
Enginetech said not to use it ... it will such the sump dry when you go around corners ....
WHO DO I BELIEVE ???????
With the Melling, I am only taking 20-25% increase in flow. Will that suck the pump dry?
This seems to be the only real concern with an HV pump.
Thoughts?????
Thanks so much again ..... Mike
I got two private e-mails saying "a high volume pump will suck the sump dry .... I destroyed an engine this way ..."
So I put two e-mails in ... one to Melling and one to Enginetech.
Melling said to use the HV pump ... should work well in an old engine ...
Enginetech said not to use it ... it will such the sump dry when you go around corners ....
WHO DO I BELIEVE ???????
With the Melling, I am only taking 20-25% increase in flow. Will that suck the pump dry?
This seems to be the only real concern with an HV pump.
Thoughts?????
Thanks so much again ..... Mike
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,831
Likes: 121
From: St Albert, Alberta
Sorry for posting again .... just wanted to double check ....
I got two private e-mails saying "a high volume pump will suck the sump dry .... I destroyed an engine this way ..."
So I put two e-mails in ... one to Melling and one to Enginetech.
Melling said to use the HV pump ... should work well in an old engine ...
Enginetech said not to use it ... it will such the sump dry when you go around corners ....
WHO DO I BELIEVE ???????
With the Melling, I am only taking 20-25% increase in flow. Will that suck the pump dry?
This seems to be the only real concern with an HV pump.
Thoughts?????
Thanks so much again ..... Mike
I got two private e-mails saying "a high volume pump will suck the sump dry .... I destroyed an engine this way ..."
So I put two e-mails in ... one to Melling and one to Enginetech.
Melling said to use the HV pump ... should work well in an old engine ...
Enginetech said not to use it ... it will such the sump dry when you go around corners ....
WHO DO I BELIEVE ???????
With the Melling, I am only taking 20-25% increase in flow. Will that suck the pump dry?
This seems to be the only real concern with an HV pump.
Thoughts?????
Thanks so much again ..... Mike
Thread Starter
|
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 390
Likes: 5
Awesome!
Should be fine then .... the engine looks surprisingly clean inside and out.
I know my engine was original ... makes me wonder if this one was rebuilt at some point ....or just very low miles. Even the hear riser in the exhaust is still free and working.
HV pump it is!
Thanks so very much again !!!!!!!!!!
Mike
Should be fine then .... the engine looks surprisingly clean inside and out.
I know my engine was original ... makes me wonder if this one was rebuilt at some point ....or just very low miles. Even the hear riser in the exhaust is still free and working.
HV pump it is!
Thanks so very much again !!!!!!!!!!
Mike
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 16
From: Caraway, AR
If there is any doubt, just get you one of those 38 gal rear tanks and retrofit it for extra oil capacity. Should be good with about 154 quarts extra capacity. Wonder how long that would extend your oil change interval? Bet you could push it passed two years if you spun the filter and added a quart ever 10k 
Speaking of, where's all the crazy mods? You know, science, for the sake of madness. @ctubutis There's not some super secret sub forum where all the weirdos are kept to keep the rest of us safe is there?
Speaking of, where's all the crazy mods? You know, science, for the sake of madness. @ctubutis There's not some super secret sub forum where all the weirdos are kept to keep the rest of us safe is there?
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 22,415
Likes: 92
From: Denver Metro Area, CO
If there is any doubt, just get you one of those 38 gal rear tanks and retrofit it for extra oil capacity. Should be good with about 154 quarts extra capacity. Wonder how long that would extend your oil change interval? Bet you could push it passed two years if you spun the filter and added a quart ever 10k
Speaking of, where's all the crazy mods? You know, science, for the sake of madness. @ctubutis There's not some super secret sub forum where all the weirdos are kept to keep the rest of us safe is there?
Speaking of, where's all the crazy mods? You know, science, for the sake of madness. @ctubutis There's not some super secret sub forum where all the weirdos are kept to keep the rest of us safe is there?
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,369
Likes: 16
From: Caraway, AR
I'm not entirely sure I believe you, I tripped and fell last week and ended up in the alt fuel section... Kinda makes you want to strap a bomb under the hood in the hopes of offsetting fuel costs enough to pay for said bomb lol