Transmission input shaft "failure"
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Transmission input shaft "failure"
Hello all –
I have a 2016 F-350 FX4 SRW King Ranch with ~ 88,000 miles on it. The truck is a daily driver and spends most of the time on highway. It has been used to tow light loads ~9 times in 3 years. These consisted of a 26’ boat 4 times, an 18’ dump trailer 2 times, a 17’ boat a total of 15 miles, and a 12’ U-Haul from AZ to KY. All of the loads are obviously WAY below what the vehicle is rated for. The only change from stock is the installation of 35 x 12.5 tires.
Last week while merging after exiting the highway there was a “bang” and the RPM’s shot up. I immediately let off the gas, coasted for a minute than tried again. Nothing but an RPM increase, nothing going to transmission. I coasted to a parking lot and called for a tow to the local dealership.
The next day I was informed that I had been “mislead” by my salesman in AZ when I purchased the truck who pointed to the warranty information manual where it said diesel engine warranty and said that since I have the diesel and it is a different powertrain that the powertrain is covered to 100,000 miles. Apparently only the diesel engine itself is covered to 100,000 and the transmission gets the same warranty as the one in the Festiva.
Today they called and informed me that the issue was caused due to an input shaft “failure” (read broke). The remedy was to replace the transmission at a cost of ~$7,000.
After hearing this I contacted Ford Customer Affairs because there is no way that an input shaft that is rated at 1,400 ft/lbs of input torque should have “failed” on a vehicle with the mileage and usage of mine. They promptly told me that it is outside warranty and that since they have not had this failure documented it couldn’t be a manufacturing defect. That seems counter intuitive based upon my engineering experience in both manufacturing and high end medical systems.
I guess my questions are these:
Has anyone heard of this issue happening?
Does anyone have any input as to possible causes (defective manufacturing aside)?
Has anyone replaced the transmission on one of these?
If so how difficult was it, do they have any instructions, were there any special tools involved?
I have extensive experience pulling and building engines, in just about anything you can name so I have the ability to do it myself. I just have no experience working on diesels, and I have never replaced a transmission on one of these.
Thoughts and input are appreciated.
I have a 2016 F-350 FX4 SRW King Ranch with ~ 88,000 miles on it. The truck is a daily driver and spends most of the time on highway. It has been used to tow light loads ~9 times in 3 years. These consisted of a 26’ boat 4 times, an 18’ dump trailer 2 times, a 17’ boat a total of 15 miles, and a 12’ U-Haul from AZ to KY. All of the loads are obviously WAY below what the vehicle is rated for. The only change from stock is the installation of 35 x 12.5 tires.
Last week while merging after exiting the highway there was a “bang” and the RPM’s shot up. I immediately let off the gas, coasted for a minute than tried again. Nothing but an RPM increase, nothing going to transmission. I coasted to a parking lot and called for a tow to the local dealership.
The next day I was informed that I had been “mislead” by my salesman in AZ when I purchased the truck who pointed to the warranty information manual where it said diesel engine warranty and said that since I have the diesel and it is a different powertrain that the powertrain is covered to 100,000 miles. Apparently only the diesel engine itself is covered to 100,000 and the transmission gets the same warranty as the one in the Festiva.
Today they called and informed me that the issue was caused due to an input shaft “failure” (read broke). The remedy was to replace the transmission at a cost of ~$7,000.
After hearing this I contacted Ford Customer Affairs because there is no way that an input shaft that is rated at 1,400 ft/lbs of input torque should have “failed” on a vehicle with the mileage and usage of mine. They promptly told me that it is outside warranty and that since they have not had this failure documented it couldn’t be a manufacturing defect. That seems counter intuitive based upon my engineering experience in both manufacturing and high end medical systems.
I guess my questions are these:
Has anyone heard of this issue happening?
Does anyone have any input as to possible causes (defective manufacturing aside)?
Has anyone replaced the transmission on one of these?
If so how difficult was it, do they have any instructions, were there any special tools involved?
I have extensive experience pulling and building engines, in just about anything you can name so I have the ability to do it myself. I just have no experience working on diesels, and I have never replaced a transmission on one of these.
Thoughts and input are appreciated.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,734
Likes: 12,877
From: Wyoming
I did a Google search and came up empty on input shaft failures for the 6R140 transmission.
The transmission is indeed not covered by the 5 year/100,000 mile warranty that the diesel engine is covered under.
I can't help with the other questions other than to say I pulled a transmission from a '91 Ranger by myself and it sucked. I had a guy rebuild it that had extensive experience with GM transmissions. Mine never worked right again and leaked oil. Choose carefully who fixes your transmission.
Had I kept my Nissan Titan, it was going to be sent to Level 10 Transmissions to get a bulletproof transmission. Their website covers several Ford transmissions but not the 6R140. At the very least, a call to them might get you an expert opinion.
The transmission is indeed not covered by the 5 year/100,000 mile warranty that the diesel engine is covered under.
I can't help with the other questions other than to say I pulled a transmission from a '91 Ranger by myself and it sucked. I had a guy rebuild it that had extensive experience with GM transmissions. Mine never worked right again and leaked oil. Choose carefully who fixes your transmission.
Had I kept my Nissan Titan, it was going to be sent to Level 10 Transmissions to get a bulletproof transmission. Their website covers several Ford transmissions but not the 6R140. At the very least, a call to them might get you an expert opinion.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,191
Likes: 8,082
From: Texas
Hello all –
I have a 2016 F-350 FX4 SRW King Ranch with ~ 88,000 miles on it. The truck is a daily driver and spends most of the time on highway. It has been used to tow light loads ~9 times in 3 years. These consisted of a 26’ boat 4 times, an 18’ dump trailer 2 times, a 17’ boat a total of 15 miles, and a 12’ U-Haul from AZ to KY. All of the loads are obviously WAY below what the vehicle is rated for. The only change from stock is the installation of 35 x 12.5 tires.
Last week while merging after exiting the highway there was a “bang” and the RPM’s shot up. I immediately let off the gas, coasted for a minute than tried again. Nothing but an RPM increase, nothing going to transmission. I coasted to a parking lot and called for a tow to the local dealership.
The next day I was informed that I had been “mislead” by my salesman in AZ when I purchased the truck who pointed to the warranty information manual where it said diesel engine warranty and said that since I have the diesel and it is a different powertrain that the powertrain is covered to 100,000 miles. Apparently only the diesel engine itself is covered to 100,000 and the transmission gets the same warranty as the one in the Festiva.
Today they called and informed me that the issue was caused due to an input shaft “failure” (read broke). The remedy was to replace the transmission at a cost of ~$7,000.
After hearing this I contacted Ford Customer Affairs because there is no way that an input shaft that is rated at 1,400 ft/lbs of input torque should have “failed” on a vehicle with the mileage and usage of mine. They promptly told me that it is outside warranty and that since they have not had this failure documented it couldn’t be a manufacturing defect. That seems counter intuitive based upon my engineering experience in both manufacturing and high end medical systems.
I guess my questions are these:
Has anyone heard of this issue happening?
Does anyone have any input as to possible causes (defective manufacturing aside)?
Has anyone replaced the transmission on one of these?
If so how difficult was it, do they have any instructions, were there any special tools involved?
I have extensive experience pulling and building engines, in just about anything you can name so I have the ability to do it myself. I just have no experience working on diesels, and I have never replaced a transmission on one of these.
Thoughts and input are appreciated.
I have a 2016 F-350 FX4 SRW King Ranch with ~ 88,000 miles on it. The truck is a daily driver and spends most of the time on highway. It has been used to tow light loads ~9 times in 3 years. These consisted of a 26’ boat 4 times, an 18’ dump trailer 2 times, a 17’ boat a total of 15 miles, and a 12’ U-Haul from AZ to KY. All of the loads are obviously WAY below what the vehicle is rated for. The only change from stock is the installation of 35 x 12.5 tires.
Last week while merging after exiting the highway there was a “bang” and the RPM’s shot up. I immediately let off the gas, coasted for a minute than tried again. Nothing but an RPM increase, nothing going to transmission. I coasted to a parking lot and called for a tow to the local dealership.
The next day I was informed that I had been “mislead” by my salesman in AZ when I purchased the truck who pointed to the warranty information manual where it said diesel engine warranty and said that since I have the diesel and it is a different powertrain that the powertrain is covered to 100,000 miles. Apparently only the diesel engine itself is covered to 100,000 and the transmission gets the same warranty as the one in the Festiva.
Today they called and informed me that the issue was caused due to an input shaft “failure” (read broke). The remedy was to replace the transmission at a cost of ~$7,000.
After hearing this I contacted Ford Customer Affairs because there is no way that an input shaft that is rated at 1,400 ft/lbs of input torque should have “failed” on a vehicle with the mileage and usage of mine. They promptly told me that it is outside warranty and that since they have not had this failure documented it couldn’t be a manufacturing defect. That seems counter intuitive based upon my engineering experience in both manufacturing and high end medical systems.
I guess my questions are these:
Has anyone heard of this issue happening?
Does anyone have any input as to possible causes (defective manufacturing aside)?
Has anyone replaced the transmission on one of these?
If so how difficult was it, do they have any instructions, were there any special tools involved?
I have extensive experience pulling and building engines, in just about anything you can name so I have the ability to do it myself. I just have no experience working on diesels, and I have never replaced a transmission on one of these.
Thoughts and input are appreciated.
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
An independent shop could fix or replace that transmission for half of what the dealer wants.
I've obviously not seen this particular shaft. It could have had an inclusion that produced a weak spot. It could have had a machining error, but that rarely happens to one piece, it would tend to happen to a series of pieces.
I've obviously not seen this particular shaft. It could have had an inclusion that produced a weak spot. It could have had a machining error, but that rarely happens to one piece, it would tend to happen to a series of pieces.
Tuned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 391
Likes: 18
From: Calhan, CO
Mmmmmmm
I've never heard of such a thing. Wrong diagnosis. Breaking an input shaft? I doubt it.
Probably the same Ford tech who told me the 6.7's are great motors except for the weak timing chains. True story.
Probably the same Ford tech who told me the 6.7's are great motors except for the weak timing chains. True story.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
My old 2012 had a broken input shaft. It was a clean break at the splines. Got really lucky and was able to just swap the shaft and the torque converter. This is a rare failure and isn't common. I will also say you are probably better off going to a well regarded transmission shop. A used 6R140 is actually very cheap with low mileage if you want to source one used.
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New User
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Thanks for the responses.
I also scoured the net and couldn’t find any issues similar to mine with this transmission.
I am trying to find out how they diagnosed the issue. When the problem happened and I was in the lot awaiting tow I tried the transmission in D,M,2,1 and R. I also cycled 2H, 4H, and 4L. None of these had any change in problem.
I also scoured the net and couldn’t find any issues similar to mine with this transmission.
I am trying to find out how they diagnosed the issue. When the problem happened and I was in the lot awaiting tow I tried the transmission in D,M,2,1 and R. I also cycled 2H, 4H, and 4L. None of these had any change in problem.
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Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,734
Likes: 12,877
From: Wyoming
I've heard of more transfer case problems than transmission problems. Since the transfer case is bolted to the transmission, there's no way to observe if the transmission is sending output to the transmission. If the chain is broken then none of the modes (2Hi, 4Hi, 4Lo) is going to work.
There may be some diagnostics the dealership can look at to see that none of the engine RPM is making it to the transmission. That may be what led them to say the input shaft failed.
There may be some diagnostics the dealership can look at to see that none of the engine RPM is making it to the transmission. That may be what led them to say the input shaft failed.
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
Sure there is. There are speed sensors that will show if the shafts are turning or not. They could also check for pressure at the test port to see if the pump is turning.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,734
Likes: 12,877
From: Wyoming
Come on Mark. Surely you understood that I meant there was no way to look for a shaft that was turning. My next paragraph specifically mentioned other diagnostics.
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I spoke to the dealership today. They said that they transmission failed data logging (showed no rotation on input shaft despite crank RPM in first and second gear). So there is no rotation in the transmission which is what I figured, so my question is what is likelihood of the input shaft braking under less than designed usage? Would it be more possible that the torque converter broke and is not engaging? To me that would also give the same result. I obviously am not transmission guy, my experience stops at the flex plate.
I have heard that the transmission would need to be programmed after install so it isn't really possible to change it myself, is that accurate?
I have heard that the transmission would need to be programmed after install so it isn't really possible to change it myself, is that accurate?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
Either the torque converter or the input shaft has failed. It's one of those two. I can't tell which one until the trans is out and then it will be obvious. In the end, does it matter if it's the torque converter or the input shaft? Replace the broken part and move on. Or replace the whole trans.
I don't know the answer to that.
I don't know the answer to that.
