Well I guess if you own a 6.0 long enough...

Recap: Wife was on the way up to her horse camp week and at around 40 miles up the hill and maybe 5500 ft elevation CEL came on, truck is running normal all the way up. Yesterday it started up fine and drove the 55 or so miles back, everything working as it should (tow haul with heavy VGT use, all fine), CEL is still on. Absolutely sounds fine too...

So pulled codes, hoping for something easy... First off Torque threw a warning up and said the PCM was not able to read any PIDs, Likely your engine is not OBDII capable, so it would likely hot be able to display real time data. It also had trouble connecting to the truck, which is unusual. I never went to the Real Time screens just went into Check Faults.

Reported back 6 faults with one shown as "current": P0299 Powertrain (it had that captured total of 3x), next was: P0500 Vehicle Speed Sensor (once), and last was captured 2x: U2023 Network (doesn't sound good).

This is the 1st trip the truck has gone on in some time without Torque running real time, go figure. Where to start? Try clearing codes and see if they come back? Start looking for rat damaged wires ??

Truck had been on a couple trips and just back from one (close by but it pulled the Jeep, so some work), then within a couple days we loaded the camper and brought it up to the house about 9 days before her trip, and it sat while we readied it and camper - don't know if that matters but no CELs and everything running normal, including her departure.

So back to where should I start?

Thanks,
Scott

 

Sorry to hear Scott. The only thing that is coming to mind, with my limited knowledge, is maybe give Forscan a try before you clear any dtc's, if you haven't already. I've read it is better for pulling codes. Good luck, thoughts with ya.

 

Yeah I have that on my laptop -- I'll go string an extension cord out there (bad battery). I figure the VSS could trigger the power train code, but it is only in once. I'm going to take my time as we need to get the camper fixed, either by me or take it somewhere. I'll post back if I get more out of Forscan... Thanks,
Scott

 

The U2023 code comes back as just a vague network code "external node failure" from what I can find.

It could be an ABS module code, especially since you had the P0500 code also (at least that is the first place I would look). Beyond that, more troubleshooting is going to be required to nail that one down, maybe even need IDS.

Might even verify that fuse #11 (I believe that is the one for ABS) is seated in firmly

 

Thank you Mark, I was hoping you'd come through the thread -- had to do some camper work and now out to run Forscan on it. I'm thinking of clearing the codes? Is the VSS the sensor on the trans or the rear (diff? ithink it was).

I know Forscan can run tests, maybe run the ABS - I'll reseat the ABS fuse and look for any obvious chewing...

Scott

 

Rear diff. No ABS speed out of the trans.

The ABS speed feeds all the other vehicle speed components in the vehicle.

 

The P0500 is usually the speed sensor in the differential or its wiring, but I thought (could be wrong) that it could also be triggered by an ABS sensor.

For the P0299, I would start at the EBP sensor wiring and/or it being plugged up.

 

Just saw your post - so is the P0500 code dedicated to the differential speed input (ie no connection to the ABS module)? I just can't recall for sure.

 

It can mean multiple things Mark, I was just referring no "speed" info comes from the trans.



TSB 07-9-8

05/14/07

ABS LIGHT ON AND POSSIBLE DTCS C1175, C1236, P0500, P0503

FORD:
2005-2007 F-Super Duty

This article supersedes TSB 06-7-6 to update the vehicle model years.

ISSUE
Some 2005-2007 F-Super Duty vehicles may exhibit an ABS light on and possible diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) C1175, C1236, P0500 and/or P0503. This condition may be due to faulty vehicle wiring, a failed wheel speed sensor or vehicle speed sensor (VSS) tone ring damage inside the rear differential case. The base brake system will continue to function as normal.

ACTION
Follow appropriate Service Procedure based on DTC.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

P0500 And/Or P0503

P0500/0503 is set by the PCM when the VSS signal from the ABS module is missing. If the vehicle has DTC P0500/P0503 in the PCM, and the vehicle has ABS DTCs, check ground 105 and the ABS fuse (mini fuse # 11).

C1175

If the vehicle has only DTC C1175 in the ABS module it is most likely caused by a wiring concern or a faulty sensor.

1. Inspect the vehicle wiring for damage beginning at the rear wheel speed sensor connector and ending at the ABS module. Damage may be at any point in the wiring.

2. Inspect for pinched looms, frayed terminal connections, loose pins, etc.

3. Pay special attention to the wiring along the frame (especially if the vehicle has been modified from a body builder), and near the fuel tank.

4. The speed sensor wiring begins at the rear axle and is routed along the frame rail on the left side of the vehicle. It then branches off at C140 (gas C133), which is located beneath the master cylinder. The wiring then goes to C455 at the ABS module.

5. The wiring should not be loose, especially near the rear wheel speed sensor. Ensure that the wiring is properly retained and routed to eliminate intermittent speed signals.

NOTE USE A ZIP TIE TO SECURE THE HARNESS TO THE SENSOR SO THE PORTION OF THE HARNESS THAT IS COMING OFF OF THE BRAKE CABLE IS SUPPORTED.

6. Repair wiring as necessary.

7. If no concerns are found in the wiring, replace the sensor.


C1175 AND C1236

If the vehicle has DTC C1236 AND C1175 in the ABS module, check the vehicle wiring per the C1175 procedure. If there is a hard or intermittent wiring fault, the current may at times be high or low causing a C1175. A wiring concern may also cause noise in the circuit that can be interpreted by the module as an erratic speed signal, which will set the C1236.

If no wiring issue is found, follow the C1236 procedure.

C1236

1. If the vehicle has DTC C1236 in the ABS module, a wiring concern may exist that is severe enough to interrupt the signal, but not severe enough to totally open/short the circuit. Inspect the sensor connector on the 14405 harness for signs of water trapped in the strain relief elbow, corrosion, or broken/cracked connector. Install a new pigtail if necessary (See Pigtail Installation Procedure).

2. Ensure that the harness is properly retained and routed to eliminate intermittent speed signals.

3. Add dielectric grease to the connector.

4. If only DTC C1236 exists, and it occurs only under acceleration or towing, check for loose carrier bolts.

5. If no wiring concerns are present check the tone ring through the wheel speed sensor bore for damage, and for proper gap between the tone ring and ring gear.

6. Use a feeler gage to confirm gap between tone ring and ring gear is no larger than 0.010". Check the gap at multiple locations around the tone ring.

a. If gap is larger than 0.010", remove the axle cover and use suitable punch/driver to carefully "tap" tone ring back against ring gear. Recheck with feeler gage.






b. Examine each tooth of the tone wheel for damage. Even a small nick can cause a C1236 (Figure 1).

7. If no tone wheel issues are found, replace the wheel speed sensor.


Pigtail Installation

1. Disconnect the battery.

2. Disconnect the damaged connector from the axle.

3. Cut wiring near the rear wheel sensor takeout from 14405 harness.

4. Splice in pigtail (pigtail includes heat shrink).

5. Cover heat shrink with tubing.

6. Route the two (2) retainers of the pigtail to park brake cable.

NOTE USE A ZIP TIE TO SECURE THE HARNESS TO THE SENSOR SO THE PORTION OF THE HARNESS THAT IS COMING OFF OF THE BRAKE CABLE IS SUPPORTED.

7. Plug in connector to rear wheel sensor.

8. Check for functionality.



Scott had played with the ABS ground, I'd be checking that carefully.

My understanding for that model year is the ABS will use the rear axle sensor primarily. If it loses that, it will go to the other front sensors to send out the speed info to the GEM, Overhead Console, PCM, instrument cluster and a few other places. But it will set a code even though everything looks OK. It's not like the '99+ years where you could see the speedometer vary.

 

Here is a TSB for an 05, may not be applicable, but it might contain a clue. I hate electrical problems, but network problems are even worse!

TSB 05-11-14
Various Electronic and Driveability Symptoms and Codes:
2005 F-Super Duty trucks built before 5-11-05 may exhibit various electronic-related symptoms due to loose/miss-installed fuses in the engine compartment fuse box. These symptoms may be intermittent. The fuses should be inspected to verify they are installed into the terminals in the fuse box and not along side the terminals.
Fuses--Symptoms
#9, 20 amp: Trailer turn signals inoperative
#10, 10 amp: Check Engine Light; Codes P1633, P0446
#11, 10 amp: Speedo bounce, ABS light, Cruise control inop; Codes U1900, U2023, P0500-P0503
#12, 2 amp: Cruise control inop, TBC Fault displayed, chime; Code C2803
#13, 15 amp: Day time running lamps inop
#15, 15 amp: Crank/no start, bucking, stall; Codes P2614, P2617, P1378
#17, 10 amp: A/C inop or not cooling
#18, 10 amp: Crank/no start, bucking, stall; P2614, P2617, P1378, P0611
#20, 10 amp: Trailer back up lamp inop

 

Thanks Jack. Good information!

 

WoW - thanks guys! So Forscan gave more detail, but before running it I reset Fuse 11 (ABS) looked at the sensor and wiring off the rear diff., looked generally around under hood for wiring or droppings, scratch marks (signs of rats) and there were none, in fact there was a light dust over everything so it would be pretty obvious.

Ran Forscan and here is what it came back with:

===PCM DTC P0299-E0===
Code: P0299 - Turbocharger/Supercharger Underboost

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC
Module: Powertrain Control Module
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Turbocharger/Supercharger Underboost
This DTC may be caused by :
Exhaust Pressure Sensor A Circuit
VGTContValve$I
===END PCM DTC P0299-E0===

===PCM DTC P0500-60===
Code: P0500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor A
Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC
Module: Powertrain Control Module
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Vehicle Speed Sensor A
This DTC may be caused by :
Open circuit.
Short circuit
Possible causes are:
VSS sensor / wiring
PCM
Inspect connectors for signs of damage, water ingress, corrosion, etc.
===END PCM DTC P0500-60===

===IC DTC U2023-20===
Code: U2023 - Fault Received from External Node
Status:
- Previously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC
Module: Instrument Cluster
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Fault Received from External Node
This DTC may be caused by :
Short circuit on the CAN line.
Open circuit on the CAN line.
There is a time out between two modules on the CAN bus
There is Interference on the CAN bus
There may be other modules on the CAN communication data line that are not communicating and are timing out.
Note:
DTCs that start with 'U' are faults which occur during module-to-module communication.
Modules should never be replaced based only on a 'U' code. These codes do not always indicate a problem, and can be caused by normal diagnostic functions, carried out on the vehicle.
===END IC DTC U2023-20===

So then questioned the Wife more on how the drive up went, specifically: did you drive like you had a marshmellow under your foot (which would be typical for her horse towing), and Yes was the answer - she emphasized how well the engine braking worked on the way home. The trip we had come back from just before, the truck did shuttle duty for white water kayaking and basically never even got warm for 6 or so drives. Last time I had a turbo boost code (I think it might have been the same), I cleared it and drove the crap out of it and it didn't come back.

So cleared codes and re-parked truck to dry out camper - it started exactly as it usually does and made all the right sounds. Interestingly I have been watching the boost pretty carefully after letting the truck sit over winter and having that strange start-up. Turbo changes note and sings like a canary...

Question on the VSS: any chance it could get set if you say slipped the rear tires in reverse? Because that happened a couple camp trips ago...

I'm going to drive it and check for codes in a month or so -- see if the other two come back as soft codes...

Thanks for your help guys!

Scott

 

Oh and Jack: I actually never touched the ABS ground - you talked me out of doing that one. However I will check it as I was in the area checking the intake side of the air filter before her trip... Thanks for that...
Scott

 

Never say never, but it shouldn’t. Generally we found it codes with an inconsistent signal, not a differential.

We jumped both sensor lines off the wheels/axles, as well as the post ABS controller all the time for out test instrumentation. Even with those parasitic drains we never had an issue, only with broken or shorted wires.

This shouldn’t be an issue on your truck, but you could pull the rear sensor and wipe it off. Sometimes enough iron particles get on it to dampen the signal.

 

Thanks Jack, I think I'll do that this week... Might just go for a drive with the camper on, what the heck a measly 3500 lbs in the bed shouldn't even be felt...

Scott