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Alright, let’s get to it. I have a bone stock, ‘15 F-250 Platinum SRW Powerstroke. The truck had 78,780 miles on it, and was a CPO vehicle from the dealer. That included a 12 month/12k mile bumper to bumper warranty, along with the remaining 100k engine warranty. I bought it on 5/23 of this year. Less than 24 hours after buying it, I get a check engine light while towing my Jeep down to Port Aransas. I had the code pulled the next morning, and called my salesman to let him know. I had the light reset, and it came back on when we were headed back home a few days later. 750 mile round trip. As soon as I got back from vacation, I stopped by my local Ford dealer. They did a quick scan and told me they thought it might need a manual Regen because of the high idle hours. 2150 engine hours, 500 idle hours. I didn’t think that was the issue though, because I had just pulled an 8k load on a 750 mile round trip, running close to 80 the whole way. I had to go back to work for two weeks the next day, so he just reset it and I left. Once I got back, I dropped it off to the Ford dealer that I bought it from which is 60 miles away, on 6/14. I told the SA that I thought something was wrong with the DPF, because the tailpipes were black with soot. He said they would look at it and find out. He called me the next day and told me they found another code as well as the P2002. It was for the redundant DEF heater assembly. They went ahead and replaced the DEF heater. I drive over to pick it up on the evening of 6/19. The very next morning it popped another CEL. I stop into my local dealer and tell him to run the code, but let him know that it’s probably another P2002 code. I was correct, so he told me they would look into it. He called yesterday and confirmed that the DPF is bad, and needs to be replaced to a tune of $3000+. He said he called the dealer that I bought it from, and they said they were done with my truck. They said the CPO warranty does not cover the DPF. I immediately called my salesman, who was of no help...and then the GM and explained to him what was going on. After 30 minutes, the used car manager calls me back and said this was not their issue. I told him this was a pre-existing condition, and should be covered. He refuted that, stating that they thoroughly inspect every CPO vehicle. I asked him to tell me exactly what they do to test the DPF. His response was, well...I’m not really sure about that. They had the truck on their lot for 58 days, and in that time...they only out around 180 miles total on it. It seems like the only time it throws the CEL, is when it’s trying to do a Regen. I had them activate my ghost screen while they had it, and it was showing 60% filled when I picked it up. I’m at 75% now. The used car manager told me they would try to help me with the repair, and that he would call me back after speaking to some other people. That was yesterday around 3, and I’ve heard nothing but crickets ever since. Thoughts on the matter? Sorry for being long winded! I just wanted to get every possible detail out there.
Well so much for the bumper to bumper warranty aye? I don't see how this could be a CPO truck and have this happen in the short time you have had it. How many total miles have you put on it? Does it depower with that code? What was the first code you got the next day after buying it?
Obviously I'd be angry if it were me. But depending on where you live, is cutting that stuff out and running a 0hp or tow tune possible? Or does it run okay with code and still get decent mileage? There was one guy here that ran with his DPF cracked and having black tailpipes I believe with no diesel smell because the other parts of the filter were working.
Let us know what's going on. Hopefully the smarter dudes will chime in soon.
Also, the emissions warranty on our trucks is 5 years or 50k miles. But you would think that bumper to bumper they gave you would apply to this since it's supposed to be a "certified" used vehicle. What a freaking crock.
Good luck man.
Last edited by Overkill2; 06-22-2019 at 06:08 PM.
Reason: Add to post
That’s my biggest issue with this whole matter as well. The first codes that popped up after 150 miles or so was P2002 and P246C. It did have another code though...P259F, but I believe it was related to me using the engine brake button. I read that the 2015’s do that because of the new design of the turbo and no wastegate. I’ve put a little over 2k miles on it so far though. I did experience a lost of power. Running normal, I see my boost gauge around 25psi. In reduced power, I could only build around 18 psi. This is on the instrument cluster boost gauge. I don’t want to delete just yet, because it is still under a warranty or some kind, I suppose. It also no, Texas does not smog diesels. I’m hoping that it was just the redundant DEF heater code that was throwing it into low power. Right now, it’s running normal. I saw 3 different Cleaning Exhaust Filter screens on my trips, so I think the DPF is still working, it just has black tips and a CEL. I haven’t noticed any bad diesel smell either, and my mileage has been around 16mpg. I thought the federal warranty on emissions components was 8 years/80,000 miles. It didn’t state what all it covered though. I went through my CPO warranty and where it says what all is covered, under Emissions, it says: DEF System (Excludes Catalyst). I’m still not done fighting with the dealership, but this is ridiculous.
Also, on the EPA government website under the Emissions Warranty, this is what it states:
What Are Specified Major Emission Control Components?
There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) on 1995 and newer vehicles:
• Catalytic converters
• The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU)
• The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD)
Catalytic converters are critical emission control components that have been installed on most cars and trucks manufactured since 1975. Since engines don’t burn fuel completely during the combustion process, the exhaust contains a significant amount of harmful pollutants such as carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and oxides of nitrogen. The catalytic converter aids the conversion of these pollutants to less harmful substances such as carbon dioxide, water vapor, nitrogen, and oxygen before the exhaust is expelled into the environment.
The electronic emissions control unit or computer monitors certain powertrain functions and controls various operating parameters to help the vehicle run efficiently and with the low* est possible emissions. Ignition, transmission function, air injection, exhaust gas recirculation
4
Questions and Answers
(EGR), engine operating temperature and fuel system parameters are some of the systems monitored and/or controlled by the electronic emissions control unit.
The onboard emissions diagnostic device monitors the operation of a vehicle’s emission control system and alerts the driver with a dashboard light when malfunctions occur. The system will record where the problem is occurring and assist automotive technicians in diagnos* ing and repairing emission control malfunctions. Since some emission control malfunctions do not have an adverse effect on vehicle performance, they can go undetected by the driver for quite some time. The onboard diagnostic device will help catch malfunctions early, preventing a significant output of harmful exhaust emissions from your vehicle, and possibly in time to be covered by the emissions control warranty. Often this “device” is part of the electronic control unit mentioned above.
In the future, there may be other parts or components that qualify for this coverage. Check your owner’s manual or warranty book for possible additional coverage.
How Long Do the Emissions Warranties Apply to Individual Parts of
My Vehicle?
For 1995 and newer model year vehicles, emission control and emission related parts are war* ranted for the first 2 years or 24,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs). Specified major emission-control components are warranted for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs).
Parts with a stated replacement interval, such as, “replace at 15,000 miles or 12 months,” are warranted up to the first replacement point only.
i feel like this should still be covered under that warranty, or am I reading into that wrong?
Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, I’m just trying to find every loophole to use against them. The warranty states:
The warranty coverage period for:
• Passenger cars, light duty trucks (applies to vehicles up to 8,500 pounds GVWR)
— 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for catalytic
converter, electronic emissions control unit, and onboard emissions
diagnostic devices.
— 2 years or 24,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all other
covered parts .
• Heavy duty vehicles (applies to trucks over 8,500 pounds GVWR up to 19,500 pounds GVWR)
— 5 years or 50,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all covered
parts.
Is it possible to squeak by on the light duty category since my truck weighs under 7k lbs? Yes, I am aware that my truck is a Super Duty...just trying to gain some traction here!
To simplify it some, I believe the 8 year 80k mile warranty is for vehicles under the 8500 lb GVWR. Our modern Super Dutys are over that. This is from a frequent poster here who is a knowledgeable guy.
Hopefully he will chime in. But yes, if I were you I'd by mad as hell, I believe this is wrong and there's no way this just developed. IMHO. I believe they are sticking it to you.
Heard back from the dealership today. The used car manager told me that they were offering me the discounted price of $3200 to replace the DEF, because the normal cost of that repair is over $5000, and that I should absolutely jump on that. Soo...I’m supposed to be thankful now? He kept going on and on about how I should have bought the extended warranty. I finally told him I couldn’t talk to him anymore because I may as well have been talking to a brick wall. I was in the middle of drafting an email to the GM of the dealership. I fired it off, so it’s another waiting game. On another note, my DPF filter hit 100% today and kicked into a regen mode. After 15-20 minutes of driving at 80 mph+, it dropped all the way down to 25% before I stopped driving. It’s definitely doing its job. It just sucks that our DPF’s don’t have a filter cartridge that can be changed out. The cheapest I’ve seen a ‘15 DPF going for was $1200. Just eats me alive that people all over DFW have sold theirs for scrap metal!
Man, I'd want to reach through the line and choke that dude. Sounds like one big pack of @sswholes there... WOW. I sure hope you can get this resolved to your satisfaction. Good luck with the general manager.
I don't know how a tech would check the DPF during the CPO checklist, but did you get a copy of the checklist that was done by the dealership's mechanic? While you are trying to verify how they verified the DPF was ok, you may have a long battle on your hand.
The only other suggestion to try, once you've exhausted civil discussions, is to use social media to briefly explain publicly how this dealership wouldn't fix a problem that existed when they sold you the truck. Keep your explanation short and to the point. You'd have to hit them where it hurts, and they would need to know it. I know of one case on another forum where problems with a dealership were turned after making it public that they sold a car with an existing problem. The dealership was sensitive to the bad press that could impact future sales since they were getting a bad image that they took advantage of customers. A few thousand dollar repair was chump change when thinking about lost future sales.
I don't know how a tech would check the DPF during the CPO checklist, but did you get a copy of the checklist that was done by the dealership's mechanic? While you are trying to verify how they verified the DPF was ok, you may have a long battle on your hand.
The only other suggestion to try, once you've exhausted civil discussions, is to use social media to briefly explain publicly how this dealership wouldn't fix a problem that existed when they sold you the truck. Keep your explanation short and to the point. You'd have to hit them where it hurts, and they would need to know it. I know of one case on another forum where problems with a dealership were turned after making it public that they sold a car with an existing problem. The dealership was sensitive to the bad press that could impact future sales since they were getting a bad image that they took advantage of customers. A few thousand dollar repair was chump change when thinking about lost future sales.
That is my next plan of action, after I see how the GM responds. Yelp, BBB, Facebook, and Google all have something coming if they keep it up.
I did receive a checklist for the 172 point inspection, saying what all they went over. There’s a whole lot of discrepancies in it though.
1. - There were no floor mats whenever I picked it up, even though they were checked off twice on the list. One that they were present, and two that they were secured down via the snaps. They gave me a set of off-road mats that I picked up later when I had to take it in for service.
2. - The drivers side door lock was sticking from the day I picked it up. It said all locks were function tested. They fixed that as well after I brought it back.
3. - It said that the shocks were tested and operated well. It still had the OE Rancho shocks on it. 2 had little resistance and 2 were collapsed. I went ahead and replaced them with Bilsteins, since I knew they would only replace them with Rancho.
4. - The center headrest for the rear seat was missing. The seat and head restraint systems were all checked off on that list.
5. - Under the Exhaust system, the two categories are Exhaust System Condition, and Exhaust Control Test. Both boxes are checked as passed. We don’t have emissions testing here in TX for diesels, so I’m not sure what was done there.
I would say say that they missed a few things in their “Thorough” 172 point checklist.
I sent another email to the GM yesterday and threatened to take action if I didn't get this taken care of. Here's our ongoing convo. I guess we will just wait and see. They are going to have an unruly customer if they come back with some bogus excuse when I take it back.
Me - Hey Jeff, I tried calling you again yesterday but never heard back. We spoke last Friday about the issue with my ‘15 F-250 Platinum Powerstroke. I did hear back from the used car manager, but he was extremely unhelpful. All he wanted to do is point the finger at me and claim that this happened after I left, and reiterate that I was the one who turned down the extended warranty. As I was typing this, he called again and it was the same deal. He said that I was getting a deal at fixing this repair for $3200. There is absolutely no reason I should be forking out over $3k for a repair on a CPO truck that had this issue before I bought it. The whole reason I bought the truck from you guys, so far away...was that it was a CPO. He told me that every CPO vehicle goes through a 172 point inspection. I asked him exactly how they inspected the DPF, and his response was, “well, I just don’t know about that”. The fact of the matter is, this issue would not have been discovered under an inspection. But to a trained eye, it would have been noticed. At the end of the day, the issue with my truck was a pre-existing condition, and can be proven with the pictures that were taken of it when it was offered for sale. When I first brought the truck in for the issue on 6/14, I met with the Service Advisor Mark Calloway. I explained to him that I thought there was an issue with the DPF. He advised me that there could be a multitude of problems causing the issue. I then walked him around to the back of the truck to show him the soot in my exhaust tips. He rubbed the inside of my tailpipe and was surprised at the amount of soot, and then agreed that there was probably something wrong with the DPF. That damage did not happen overnight. The only time the check engine light will illuminate is when the truck goes into regeneration. You guys had the truck on your lot for almost 2 months. In that time, it was only driven around 200 miles total. It takes some heavy duty driving before the truck will go into regeneration mode, as well as at the right mileage range. The truck has to be completely up to temperature as well. With there only being short test drives, it never had an opportunity to do an active regeneration. I put 50 miles on it the night I bought it. The next evening I left town pulling a trailer with my Jeep loaded. After roughly 100 miles the truck went into regen mode, and the check engine light popped on. Fast forward to after I picked up my truck from you guys. I drove it straight home and parked it. The next day, I was running around loop 820 and the truck went into a regen. It immediately popped the check engine light. I was close to McDavid Ford, so I pulled in there to let them pull the code. As I suspected, it was the same code that had popped up the first time. The SA at McDavid spoke with Mark Calloway and Mark confirmed that the same code had been present the first time I brought it in to Rockwall for service.
All I’m trying to do here is get my truck fixed Jeff. With the DPF the way it is now, it’s only a matter of time before the variance in the DPF gets too great, and ends up shutting the truck down, then leaving me stranded on the side of the road. There have been several issues that I have not been pleased about, but this is the only one I am trying to focus on. The first being that I was charged a VIT after specifically being told by Earnest that I wouldn’t. I found it later on my sales paperwork. The other being that the center headrest for the back seat was missing. I brought that up with Earnest as well, but it got swept under the rug. Right now, all I want is a truck that I don’t have to worry about breaking down and leaving me stranded. Please let me know your thoughts on the matter. Thank you.
Me - I’m going to try sending this once again, but from my other email address as my yahoo emails will sometimes get sent to the spam folder. I need to hear back from you about this issue, as it is entirely unacceptable. So far I have 5 issues with the 172 point inspection that you guys provide with your CPO vehicles.1. - The floor mats were checked off twice on the checklist. One for being present, and two for being snapped into place. There were no mats in the truck when I picked it up. Earnest did give me some off-road mats, but they don’t fit nor look anywhere near as good as the Platinum embroidered mats would have.
2. - The shocks were checked off twice as well. Once on the road test, and again on the Underbody. The shocks were blown out and almost rattled me off of the road on a curve with a washboard surface. 2 of the shocks were completely collapsed and the other 2 had almost no resistance to them. They all had oil leaking from them.
3. - The drivers side electric door lock was not working correctly from the time I picked it up. I didn’t notice it until the next morning, as it was already unlocked when I picked it up at the dealership, and we never locked it until I got it home that night. The service department fixed the lock when I brought it in for the ongoing issue with the DPF.
4. - The center headrest on the back seat was missing. Those were checked off under the head and seat restraint system. I mention this in the email below.
5. - The DPF system issue. It was checked off on the list under Exhaust System Condition, and again under Emissions Control Test. This issue would have been noticed after a simple visual look at the tail pipes. I don’t know what kind of emissions control test could have been performed, because any smog sniffer would have uncovered the issue with the DPF.
I honestly don’t care about the other issues. I just want to feel safe in knowing that my new truck isn’t going to leave me stranded anytime soon. Right now, it’s a ticking time bomb with the DPF the way it is. It’s not a matter of if it’s going to throw my truck into limp mode, but when. If we can’t get this sorted out, I’m going to be forced to take action against Rockwall Ford. All I want is for you guys to make this right Jeff. The way that this has been handled so far is absurd and I’m not just going to lay down and let it go. Please reach out to me when you can. Email or text is probably best, as I am working nights right now and sleep during the day. Thank you.
GM - John let me know when you can bring the truck in and we will find a fair solution to the issue.
Me -Thanks for getting back to me Jeff. I would really like to know exactly what you have in mind before I make the trip over there. It takes me a little over an hour to get there, assuming the traffic isn’t terrible. Right now, I am at work until the 10th. I could be there first thing in the morning on the 11th, but I would need a guarantee that the repair would be done on that day. I am leaving town the very next morning, and I have to have the truck for that trip.
GM - I can’t guarantee that any repair will be done on day one. I want to look at the truck with my diesel techs and get their input on what happened. We will be happy to provide you with a car while we are working on yours. I have included Buddy Mays, my service manger on this email so we can have every one in the loop on your truck.
Me - I just want the reassurance that we’re not wasting anyone’s time Jeff. Your service department already had the truck for almost 6 days straight. I even informed them of what I believed the issue to be the day I dropped it off. The P2002 code was never addressed, and the fact that the tail pipes were black wasn’t even acknowledged by anyone other than the service advisor. McDavid Ford had it figured out in less than 24 hours. I feel like the details are pretty cut and dry here. I didn’t see Buddy Mays email on the header, but please let me know if he or the diesel tech have any questions between then and now. I just want to get this wrapped up and put behind us. We will have to shoot for Tuesday, July 16th. That’s the soonest I can have it available. I will have the truck there at 7:00 am.
GM - I will see the truck on the 16th. Ask for Buddy Mays when you get here.
Thanks,
Jeff Hicks General Manager Rockwall Ford 972.290.2200
Yup. That was my assessment as well, and that’s what I told the GM. Hopefully they will act like men and acknowledge that this was pre-existing condition, and replace it on their dime.
06-22-2019, 09:27 AM
