dropping oil pan
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2019
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dropping oil pan
Can I remove the oil pan from a 2wd 79 F100 with out pulling the engine ? I had the engine built.They did not change the MSD distributor gear to match the comp roller cam, and within 3000 miles it disintegrated, lost oil pressure and diesel knocked a bit b4 shutting down. So much for $10,000. I want to check the bearings and clean the inside the best way possible. As you can see I really don't want to pull this 400 back out. It will be tough enough without scratching things some what.
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Senior User
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Yea tried that, no good. The builder put blame back on MSD. it was NOT MSdD. The distributor has a pair of tags that has to be removed by the installer before it can be used that says MUST CHANGE GEAR FOR ROLLER CAM.Installer missed this, right. It's my problem now.
Grumpy goat
Joined: May 2017
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That's a tough break. I would not put that engine back into service without a complete teardown, cleaning, and inspection. You've surely got metal floating through all the oil galleries. One piece of cam gear can clog a gallery, or trash a bearing, leading to a destroyed block. The crank, rod, and camshaft bearings and journals, cylinder walls and pistons need to be very closely inspected. I'd pull all the block plugs and have the block flushed. Flush the oil holes in crankshaft too. I would also replace the oil pump. I would disassemble the cylinder heads to inspect valve stems and guides. If you're using roller rockers, count on metal being in the trunnion bearings, and I wouldn't even consider reusing them. When roller rockers fail, the little needle bearings scatter throughout the block. The pushrods need to be blown out also.
As bad as all that sounds, it's not that big of a deal to do. Just takes time and close inspection.
As bad as all that sounds, it's not that big of a deal to do. Just takes time and close inspection.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
That's a tough break. I would not put that engine back into service without a complete teardown, cleaning, and inspection. You've surely got metal floating through all the oil galleries. One piece of cam gear can clog a gallery, or trash a bearing, leading to a destroyed block. The crank, rod, and camshaft bearings and journals, cylinder walls and pistons need to be very closely inspected. I'd pull all the block plugs and have the block flushed. Flush the oil holes in crankshaft too. I would also replace the oil pump. I would disassemble the cylinder heads to inspect valve stems and guides. If you're using roller rockers, count on metal being in the trunnion bearings, and I wouldn't even consider reusing them. When roller rockers fail, the little needle bearings scatter throughout the block. The pushrods need to be blown out also.
As bad as all that sounds, it's not that big of a deal to do. Just takes time and close inspection.
As bad as all that sounds, it's not that big of a deal to do. Just takes time and close inspection.
Grumpy goat
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,058
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How do you figure there is that much metal let alone chunks in the oil galleries? I do agree there probably is some particles and a simple oil test would show the PPM but unless the oil filter was in bypass there wasn't anything that significant getting through. I would replace the gear with the correct hardened steel gear and change the oil and filter and start it up and verify it has oil pressure and no knocks before I tore into it. This isn't the first drive gear failure I have dealt with, the benefit is these engines use tri ply Babbitt bearings and typically have .005 clearances so provided the filter was doing its job nothing above 30 microns would get through in theory unless it was in bypass.
You can take whatever risks you want.
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Ford390 I spoke with 3 different engine builders that gave me your same advise going forward.Thank you.MSD suggested a composite gear to match the Comp Cam. It's ordered. There are chunks of the five teeth that broke off laying on the distributor support. A magnet will get those. I did buy a new Melling pump to go back in. Pulling valve covers to inspect and clean the top. I use Wix filters because they are high micron. I have never tried to remove the pan in the truck. A/C box and trans bell doesn't give up very much clearance for raising the engine and the pan is very close to the saddle/cross member. So again I ask, has anyone pulled the pan out with out pulling their engine ?
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FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
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From: Angier, NC
Ford390 I spoke with 3 different engine builders that gave me your same advise going forward.Thank you.MSD suggested a composite gear to match the Comp Cam. It's ordered. There are chunks of the five teeth that broke off laying on the distributor support. A magnet will get those. I did buy a new Melling pump to go back in. Pulling valve covers to inspect and clean the top. I use Wix filters because they are high micron. I have never tried to remove the pan in the truck. A/C box and trans bell doesn't give up very much clearance for raising the engine and the pan is very close to the saddle/cross member. So again I ask, has anyone pulled the pan out with out pulling their engine ?
This is because you have to undo the motor mounts and jack the motor up to clear the cross member and even then you fight with the pan to cross member & oil pump to get the pan out.
And remember once out and you drop the bearing caps you have to re-toqurk the caps and fight to get the pan back by the pump & cross member.
So its up to you but me I would pull the motor, mount it on a stand so you can get a really good look at everything, again that's me.
Dave ----
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Posting Guru
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From: Burlington, WI
Waste of time to leave the motor in the truck and pull the pan only. The motor has to be gone through because if they messed up something that simple, what else did they mess up?
Last summer I dropped my 460's pan while it was in the truck to change my oil pump. Had to leave the pan up there and work around it because it wouldn't come all the way out.
Pull the motor. Do it the right way and touch up the paint later if needed.
Last summer I dropped my 460's pan while it was in the truck to change my oil pump. Had to leave the pan up there and work around it because it wouldn't come all the way out.
Pull the motor. Do it the right way and touch up the paint later if needed.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
Likes: 575
From: Brentwood,CA
Ford390 I spoke with 3 different engine builders that gave me your same advise going forward.Thank you.MSD suggested a composite gear to match the Comp Cam. It's ordered. There are chunks of the five teeth that broke off laying on the distributor support. A magnet will get those. I did buy a new Melling pump to go back in. Pulling valve covers to inspect and clean the top. I use Wix filters because they are high micron. I have never tried to remove the pan in the truck. A/C box and trans bell doesn't give up very much clearance for raising the engine and the pan is very close to the saddle/cross member. So again I ask, has anyone pulled the pan out with out pulling their engine ?
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Senior User
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I am quite angry I must say. I have thought about that and also putting the builders info out for all to see. In the first 500 miles I had to pull the balancer file off a nicke and replace front seal, also added a wear sleeve as a just in case. At 1200 miles I replaced the head gaskets. I re-torqued them 3 times. The SCE head gaskets would not seal. The antifreeze seapped out both rear sides. That too at my time and cost. I was offered a new distributor from the builder, HARDLY covers it in my opinion. I will have one more conversation with that shop, if I am not happy. He won't be happy once I put my reviews and pictures and the bill online for all to see. It's total BS that they ignored MSD instruction label, what's worse he has built a lot of these 400's. Many of them at 500HP and 500Torque.
