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Old Jan 30, 2019 | 07:43 PM
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More AC vent problems

About a month ago I had my truck all tore apart to fix a vent issue. Once I got the dash apart I found the vent air on/off door was broke at the hinge. This was apparently a pretty common issue after I did a little more research on it. Anyways, I got it all back together, all the vent controls worked like they should etc..

now it it seems that I have another issue. I’ve noticed after a good while running on the highway (~45 minutes or so) I lose all vent air, no matter what function. Which is weird because usually I thought it would at least default to defrost. But I have absolutely nothing coming from any vent. I can hear the blower motor running, at all speeds. I can even turn the AC to max and hear it in there humming like crazy. I checked the vacuum lines where they come through the fire wall on the passenger side. It all appears to be in tact. I’m not sure what els to check at this point. Any help would he appreciated.
 
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Old Jan 30, 2019 | 07:56 PM
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Well you need to make sure vacuum is making it inside to the control.
Next time it happens start tracing from the motor on to the inside control.
Also have you pulled the blower motor and cleaned all the crap out? If not the resister gets hot and could catch fire and burn the car to the ground.
Let us know when you find.
Dave ----
 
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Old Jan 30, 2019 | 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by southtexasidi
I’ve noticed after a good while running on the highway (~45 minutes or so) I lose all vent air, no matter what function.


Please define "no matter what function".

Do you mean after the airflow stops, you can't get it back "no matter what function" you then select? If so, were you in Defrost, Mix, or AC before the airflow stopped?

If yes to both questions, your AC evaporator is probably icing over and blocking the airflow. All air passes through the evaporator whether the AC is in use, and regardless of the temperature selected.

If the evaporator is dirty (VERY likely), it's even easier for it to ice over. The evaporator is upstream of the heater core, so running the heat makes no difference.

Two quick ways to test:

If you can duplicate the fault, pull over and park on a hard, dry surface for about an hour. If ice was present, you'll see a big puddle on the ground, under the passenger side of the cab.

Instead of Defrost, Mix, or AC, select ​​​​Vent or Heat and go for a long test drive. Vent and Heat are the only positions where the AC compressor doesn't run. If the airflow stays good, icing was the culprit.

Two common causes for evaporator icing:

Low refrigerant. Top off or do a full evac/recharge as needed.

The compressor cutout switch is adjusted too low. The switch is adjustable. Remove the connector from the switch, on the side of the receiver/dryer. Use a small screwdriver to adjust the setting. An eighth of a turn clockwise increases the cutout point about 2F. I was having trouble with my evaporator icing up. I adjusted the cutout switch one quarter turn CW, equivalent to a 4F increase, and no more icing.
 
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Old Jan 31, 2019 | 08:34 PM
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Thanks for the reply’s! So you basically have just answered my question, and it was right in front of my face the whole time. I noticed the other day coming home that my AC had froze up. The dryer was icy and the AC quit cooking..I guarantee that’s what’s happening..I’ll verify that tomorrow driving to work. I guess it just slipped my mind that all the vent air flows through the evaporator.

As as for the freezing issue goes. I have always had issues with my cutout switch on the dryer. It cycles my compressor way too fast. It literally clicks on and off once very 5-10 seconds. I noticed this even with gauges Hooked up and pressures were “normal” last time I checked the low side was ~25-30 and the high side was ~200-250. So I put a jumper wire in the switch to keep the compressor on and here I am, with these issues. Any ideas how I could fix this? My 86 has a 93 idi in it..so it has the newer style compressor with serpentine belt. And it has been converted to 134a. All AC components were changed in November except for the evaporator. Again thanks for the help
 
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Old Feb 1, 2019 | 08:10 AM
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If your switch is cycling the compressor too much and it's cold outside, this is normal. That is a low pressure switch. All that cold air moving through the evaporator lowers the pressure in the system, and it will cut it off before it freezes up.

Now, if it does it in the summer when it's hot outside, then you are low on charge. You are not really going to be able to zero in on this till the weather is above 70 outside. As the air gets warmer, it should cycle less. Some of the factory manuals have a chart with cycle times and ambient temperatures. You still may be low on charge now, and that can be causing the excessive cycling, but I would wait till it gets hot outside before trying to top it off.

Another thing you can keep an eye on: You can test it as is through the winter, if the cycling gets worse or it just quits working all together, then you know you have a leak and are definitely low on charge. But I still would not fool with it until warmer weather.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2019 | 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by southtexasidi
I put a jumper wire in the switch to keep the compressor on and here I am, with these issues. Any ideas how I could fix this?
Yeah, get rid of the jumper wire!

The rapid cycling you had previously experienced is most likely due to a low refrigerant charge. For an R134a conversion, a good rule of thumb is fill by volume to about 80% of the specs for R12.

For now, ignore any pressure gauge readings. Your low side reading tells us the compressor is working fine, but that's about all I like to infer from the gauges. Some pros can interpret the required volume by reading pressure, but it's more of a dark art. For accuracy, I think you have to sacrifice a chicken and recite a mantra inscribed on an ancient scroll. For us mere mortals, the easiest method is to do a full evacuation and then refill by volume. That way you know exactly what you've got. The way pressure behaves with refrigerant is really weird. You can buy those top-off kits with a little gauge with a green band and it seems like that is all you need to know, but it's not so. Refrigerant under pressure behaves totally different from "normal" compressed gas, such as the air you put in your tires. All I'm trying to get at is don't place too much value in the gauge readings, and certainly don't use them to determine refrigerant volume, which is what you really need to know.

Working from potentially faulty memory, another possible cause is icing inside the system. When I evacuate an AC system, I like to put it under vacuum for hours, overnight if possible. This give us amateurs a big advantage over a professional shop operating under time constraints, who might only draw a vacuum for 30 minutes or so.

Back to the refrigerant currently in your system, I'd highly suggest doing a leak check before the evac/refill. Since you had filled the system not too long ago, and the present behavior suggests a low volume of refrigerant, you may have a pretty good leak. I've got an R134a sniffer that set me back only about $25 and it works great. Don't forget to check the evaporator, too. To do this, let the vehicle sit several hours, preferably overnight, and without turning on anything, check the discharge vents in the dash. If the evaporator is leaking, that is where the refrigerant will go. Remember, don't run the fan or that will blow out any accumulated refrigerant and the sniffer won't detect anything.

Once you know you have the correct amount of refrigerant in the system, you can then play around with the setting for the cycling switch on the receiver/dryer. It needs to be tweaked a little for R134a, but I'm having a brain fart remembering if it needs to go up or down. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable can chime in. The exact pressure value itself isn't so critical. Basically, if the evaporator ices over, and the refrigerant volume is good (note I keep harping on refrigerant volume), bump up the pressure adjustment slightly and see what happens. If the ice stops accumulating, you're good. It's a little bit of trial and error. You won't hurt anything. Go too high and you just lose some cooling capacity. Go too low and it's as if you had bypassed the switch with a jumper...

One last thing: Make sure the exterior of the evaporator is clean. All airflow goes through there after the fan. Expect to find the face covered in leaves, pine needles, small rodent nests, etc. You can split the case for cleaning without having to remove the evaporator or break any connections. I think there's one bolt that comes in from the passenger footwell, otherwise all fasteners are easy to access.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2019 | 08:19 PM
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Thanks for the info guys, sold very good knowledge to be had here. So what I need to do is find a good shop that can properly evac and charge my system up to the correct amount. I know what’s in it has to be off, Because I just charged the system out of a can until the pressures “looked” good. And like said, could be way off. Does anyone know where I could find an original refidgerant capacity from ford? If so I’ll just use 80% of that for the amount to charge with. Again thanks for the input
 
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Old Feb 1, 2019 | 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by southtexasidi
Thanks for the info guys, sold very good knowledge to be had here. So what I need to do is find a good shop that can properly evac and charge my system up to the correct amount. I know what’s in it has to be off, Because I just charged the system out of a can until the pressures “looked” good. And like said, could be way off. Does anyone know where I could find an original refidgerant capacity from ford? If so I’ll just use 80% of that for the amount to charge with. Again thanks for the input
I don't have that info for these Fords, but if someone does they will need to know the year of the truck and if it has factory air or dealer added air. I am assuming from your description it' factory, but asking to make sure.
 
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Old Feb 2, 2019 | 05:12 AM
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Oh yeah gotcha. It’s an 86 F250, factory air. But has a 93 engine in it, with serpentine belt setup which has the newer style compressor on it compared to the original one from 86. And it’s been converted to 134a
 
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Old Feb 2, 2019 | 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by southtexasidi
Oh yeah gotcha. It’s an 86 F250, factory air. But has a 93 engine in it, with serpentine belt setup which has the newer style compressor on it compared to the original one from 86. And it’s been converted to 134a
Does it still use the 86 condenser?
I ask because the replacements you get now days you have to "tweak" to fit and is a little larger as it is for the newer trucks running 134a.
Even running the serpentine belt would the compressor make/model be different? I would think it is only the clutch & pulley for belt type would change?
I say this because on the 300 six motors they went to the FS6 compressor around 83 or 84 and yours being an 86 I would think would be the same.

I will see if the sticker on the radiator support on my 81 (300 six) has how much it takes (it had a York compressor small condenser) and see of the cheap Hanes book list anything.
I am working on getting my AC system together and will be using the FS6 compressor with V belt and large condenser so I would like to know the answer also.
Dave ----
 
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Old Feb 2, 2019 | 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by southtexasidi
. Does anyone know where I could find an original refidgerant capacity from ford? If so I’ll just use 80% of that for the amount to charge with.
From 1986 F150.

 
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Old Feb 2, 2019 | 08:15 PM
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The sticker on my 81 F100 with York compressor did not take picture well but it said 3 lb / 12 oz of R-12.
The 86 I think would have the newer compressor so I wonder if that is why less oz?
Dave ----
 
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Old Feb 2, 2019 | 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzFace2
The 86 I think would have the newer compressor-

It does. I think yours has a crankshaft while the later units have the wobble shaft.
 
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Old Feb 2, 2019 | 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by diggerrigger
It does. I think yours has a crankshaft while the later units have the wobble shaft.
Yes crank shaft with rod & piston and why it shakes so much.
Because of the 2 different types of compressor is why I posted mine had a York, I will be going with the newer type also.
Dave ----
 
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Old Feb 3, 2019 | 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by FuzzFace2
The sticker on my 81 F100 with York compressor did not take picture well but it said 3 lb / 12 oz of R-12.
The 86 I think would have the newer compressor so I wonder if that is why less oz?
Dave ----

​​​​​My '84 has the Sanden (barrel-shaped) compressor. The sticker (and the manual) specify 48 ounces (+/-4) of R12. Applying the 80% factor, I used 40 ounces for the R134a conversion and that has worked very well.

I hope I haven't scared off anybody by discussing how much refrigerant to use. It doesn't have to be hair-splittingly precise. The only thing I wanted to get across is that the pressure gauge doesn't correlate to quantity. Remember, refrigerant under pressure behaves very differently than "normal" gasses like the compressed air in your tires.
 
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