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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

General brake questions

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Old Jan 23, 2019 | 01:45 PM
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Question General brake questions

Hi,
Going to junk the firewall master cylinder/pedal mess from my '50 F1. Want to use a frame- mounted pedal/power booster assembly I found on Ebay. I have installed a disc conversion on the front and have original drums on the rear. The current master cylinder on the truck is a dual reservoir, but there are no proportioning or residual valves in the system. It stops on a dime and tracks straight. My question: Why install a proportioning valve? With a dropped front axle and stock rear do you really need residual valves for a frame- rail mounted master cylinder? The frame-mounted M/C is physically higher than the wheel cylinders, so I don't understand why there would be any residual fluid feedback. Please make me smart. Thanks for any insight...
 
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 10:28 AM
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I agree with you! The purpose of the check valves is to prevent fluid from draining from the wheels back to the master. If your wheel cylinders and calipers are below your master there’s no need for them.
You didn’t say what Master cylinder you’re running. Ford had several masters with different sized reservoirs. If you have one like discribed you are probably good not using a proportioning valve.
like the ole saying goes “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.
 
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 01:32 PM
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Thanks BJ,
I haven't bought the M/C/pedal setup yet, but the one I'm looking at is from Gearhead. I think it's a 1" 'vette master cylinder. I wish I could get it without power just because of the price...sure don't need power brakes on that puppy....
 
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 02:10 PM
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Call them. I’m pretty sure they have a Non Power set up too.

on another note how far are you from Bently MI. THERE’s a 56 Cab & Frame for sell there.
 
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Old Jan 24, 2019 | 06:43 PM
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On drums the adjustment of the shoes to the drum is what keeps the pedal high, but a 10lb residual valve doesn't hurt. On disc there is nothing to keep the pads in close proximity to the rotor, hence the use of the residual valve(2lb). As long as your pedal is high and applies brakes with very little movement you should be fine. As far as proportioning valves are concerned they are for adjusting front to rear braking bias, so again is your truck stops with proper braking bias front to rear you would not need one. A lot of factory masters have a rubber flapper type valve behind the brass seat which is the residual valve.

Like said, if it works (I will add 'right') don't fix it, but because it sounds like your going to be changing things you might have to reevaluate after installation of the new items.
 
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Old Jan 25, 2019 | 07:40 PM
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About residual pressure valves - it is critical to have one with drum brakes. The design of wheel cylinder cups makes them seal more efficiently as pressure in the system increases because the sides of the cup are forced tightly against the bore of the cylinder by the hydraulic pressure. Conversely, if the pressure drops all the way to zero, they won’t seal well at all and the brake fluid can creep past them and leak into the brake mechanism. The primary purpose of the RPV with drum brakes is to maintain a small pressure on the line at all times to keep the cups sealed to the bore when the system is at rest. Whether it’s the rubber duck bill under the seat in the master cylinder or a separate inline unit, you have to have an RPV or you’ll have fluid-soaked brake shoes in a short time.

Regarding the proportioning valve, most originally equipped disk/drum vehicles use a combination valve. The combination valve is comprised of three sections - the proportioning valve, the metering valve, and a pressure differential valve. As was mentioned, the prop valve cuts the pressure back to the rear brakes. Adjustable versions are readily available for dialing in mixed systems. The differential valve mostly just flags the idiot light on the dash if there is a loss of pressure in one half the system and isn’t critical to have. The metering valve, on the other hand, often gets overlooked. It holds pressure back on the disks up front until the drums in the rear start building pressure. That’s important as it helps keep the back end from coming around during a hard stop. I’d definitely look into adding one in. The easiest way is with an aftermarket combination valve.
 
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Old Jan 26, 2019 | 11:26 AM
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Thanks for the comprehensive explanation re: valve function. I think I'll reconsider and install the valves.....can't hurt. Just another example of the value of these forums...lots of experienced folks out there!!!!!
 
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