I took the new TT over to the scale to get my hitch setup figured out.
2005 Ex 2wd 6.0 with a 18 Outback 298RE using a ProPride 3P with 1400# bars.
Z code coils, RAS
My family was preoccupied so it was just me and a full tank of fuel, probably 600 lb for the family, dogs and their cra...stuff..
136 gal of water (all but black full), all camping supplies except food, clothes.

 

Am I reading this right? You have a 2000 Pound tongue weight? That seems wrong, and far too heavy for your 1400 lb WDH bars. If that's right, I'd be moving your cargo around first of all before you changed the hitch height.

 

That equals 1700lb of tongue weight or 18% of the trailer's total weight, a little on the high side of the rule of thumb 15% (my TT has 16.5%).
How nose down is the TT? Too much down angle will increase the tongue weight, you do want the TT to ride either level or just a tick nose down from level.
Where exactly are all of the water tanks located on the TT? I'm reading that as you had the fresh and grey water tanks all full....? If those tanks are all forward of the axles then that unusual water load (fresh full with grey/black empty or fresh empty with grey/black full would be more "real world") would be adding tongue weight that wouldn't be seen in a typical trip. And 136 gallons of water is over 1100lbs, so it really matters where that big load of water is under the trailer.
You are only moving 520lbs off the rear axle with the WD hitch, are you sure it's setup correctly? A 1400lb WD should be able to move more weight than that if fully loaded.

 

I filled the fresh and two grey tanks as a worst case because I could empty them at the house. The tanks are fresh, black, grey, with the galley grey over the front axle, and this was the closest I could get to all tanks partially full. When we set up the hitch at the dealer the nose of the trailer was slightly down when completely dry and empty. I know I need to make adjustments. During our first trip loaded the trailer was too nose low so that’s why I headed to the scale. I could not get pictures of the different setups on the scale.

The ProPride does add about 200 lbs. of tongue weight by itself. I have one adjustment to the jack bars I can make. I have a feeling that the soft rear springs are letting the nose of the trailer drop putting more weight on the tongue. I do have a storage rack on the back that I can use to move some weight off the tongue.

Any ideas are appreciated.

 

Let me lay out my math here.
Truck (front and rear axles) with no trailer weighs 3660+3840 = 7200
When the trailer is hooked up without WDH, it weighs 2,920 +6,280 = 9200lbs.

The difference between those two numbers (2000lbs) should be the tongue weight, right?

 

Before I headed to the scale I checked the tongue weight with my Weigh Safe hitch. With the trailer level and a jack under the receiver to keep the truck level and no WD, the tongue weight was 1250 lbs. I know that doesn't match the tongue weight from the scales.
The WD setup is moving 520 lbs off the drive axle, 380 to steer and 140 to the trailer.

 

Full fresh and gray tanks may not be reasonable. It's usually one or the other. Before departing the campsite I usually drain my fresh water tank to reduce the weight.

Tongue weight is really high. The trailer is very long so if the tanks are very far forward of the axles then all that liquid weight is going to affect the tongue weight significantly.

 

You have the right idea, but it looks like your calculator is a little out of calibration. 3660 + 3840 = 7500 (not 7200) So that 300 lb difference changes your 2K TW to the correct 1700 TW.

 

I think your good intentions here are part of the issue with the high TW. Having both fresh and used water tanks full is an unrealistic situation. Having one or the other full is more in line with real world usage situations and it really matters as water is so heavy at 8.25 lbs per gallon.

Do you know exactly where each tank is located along the trailers length? Looking at you earlier picture and a few online is that your fresh tank fill right at the very front driver's side? I'll assume the black tank is directly under the bathroom but the other tanks locations are very important in figuring this weight issue out. If the fresh tank is far forward it's placing a lot of it's weight onto the tongue. That may be OK if you eliminate the water weight from the grey tanks.

Was the dealer very familiar with the Pro Pride hitch, most are not, my dealer had only ever seen one Hensley Arrow before when I brought mine to install on our TT. They had no idea what it was all about and I explained a few things to the techs as I did the entire installation in their shop. I've read too many stories online where dealers have incorrectly set up simple WD hitches and caused the new owners (who didn't understand the hitches either) all sorts of problems.

I think that the Pro Pride or Hensley's extra weight is all worth it in the end as the towing experience is just that much better with them, especially with shorter tow vehicles like ours and longer heavier trailers. Do you have the PP's adjustable stinger? Those are a great upgrade over the original Hensleys like I use, raising that will bring the TT's nose back up some. My experience with the PP is pretty limited, but with the adjustable stinger do have the ability to tilt the hitch head(s) to allow for more spring bar tension like on most other WD hitches? If so that will allow you to adjust more tension to have the hitch transfer more weight off the drive axle. I'm limited in that regard due to the HA hitch not having the tilting ability, my 1400 bars are fully loaded and they are transferring 700-ish lbs off my drive axle, so you should be able to at least match that transfer if not exceed it. You have a big heavy trailer, with lots of TW so make all the needed adjustments to handle the load that that great hitch can handle.

The EX's rear springs really aren't all that "soft" compared to the pickups, so I'd focus on adjusting your water loading to more realistic levels and tuning the Pro Pride to get to it's best setup before worrying too much about the EX's springs. Then once fully dialed in maybe air bags would be the finishing touch to get it "perfect". My EX is still squatting a little more than I'd like with our big TT hitched and bags are on my to-do list at some point, but it drives and handle fine as-is.

You stated that these scale weights were without food or clothing packed. From the posted weights the trailer was at 9420lbs. From what I saw online the listed GVWR for it was 9500lbs, so only 80lbs available for those clothes and food (if that GVWR I saw is accurate, check your TT's specs label). This is where adjusting the water weight will really help, leaving the weight of the larger grey tank(s) 76 gallons (from online specs) and dropping the fresh tanks water weight you would gain 440-ish pounds of cargo carrying capacity over your posted scaled weight, 520lbs of CCC is much better and workable than the 80lbs the scale showed above. We typically stay at full hookup sites with only a rare "dry" overnight stop, so we almost always tow dry (with only a few gallons to support a little bathroom use enroute), this allows us a bit more available CCC as ours is also somewhat limited.

 

I agree, but I was trying to get a similar load similar to what I had leaving GA after Christmas. 2/3 fresh, 2/3 black, 1/3 grey and 2/3 galley grey. I couldn't dump the fresh in Grandma's front yard after 10 days of rain, and had to wait until we got to LA to dump all the tanks. Even after dumping all of the tanks the trailer nose was lower than I wanted, and the drop at the rear axle was 2.5-3". This is not my normal load, just a test so I can make adjustments before my next long trip in June. I plan on normally carrying about 1/4-1/3 tank of fresh only while traveling.

 

wow. That's embarrassing. Oh well, sorry for the confusion everyone, carry on.

 

The first time I looked at his numbers I thought, "Well, the WDH looks to be doing a nice job." I missed the tongue weight until that was pointed out. The tongue weight is still high, in my opinion. I doubt that the Excursion is rated for that much tongue weight.

If I don't feel comfortable draining my fresh water tank at the campsite (usually boondocking) then I'll wait until I get out on a paved road and pull over on the shoulder or a pullout and drain it there. If the (lousy) level gauge says it's empty then I'll leave it alone, just in case I need to use the toilet on the way back.

 

Yes the fresh is at the very front, you can see the tank drain in the picture I posted, the black is just behind the wardrobe slide and the two grey behind that.

One had seen a Hensley, but we were working through the installation instructions together, even tho I read ahead and watched a few videos. That's why I'm here asking for advice.

I love the Pro Pride! I was renting TTs with no WD and this is so much better. I will probably start by adjusting the stinger up one inch and add a washer to tilt the stinger and try again. That was one of the compromises based on the installation instructions. I will reduce the water to a full water tank next time

I know stock are stiffer, but the extra 700-1000 lb of capacity of the B and C codes after the progressive point should hold the back end higher. I'm not sure if I want to try to use bags to lift 3-4".

I have some heavy items in the front storage that I could strap to the rear bumper rack when I go dry camping. Some of the extra water weight was to make up for the food/sodas/etc that I didn't have loaded.
Thanks for the help, that's why I came here for some collective experience.

 

Yeah, that fresh water tank location is going to really load up the tongue when its full at 440lbs, but unloading the 630lbs from the greys, even with them farther back will help to reduce the TW some. The layout on ours is a little better as the forward tank is the secondary grey for the washer (we don't have the washer/dryer option but the tank is there and can be used if needed for extra grey capacity) then it's the black tank with the fresh after that and the main grey at the front axle.

I think those 2 PP adjustments will help to transfer more weight off the drive axle for sure, and with a little less water weight in the picture the scale should show a better distribution. I'll look forward to seeing the difference.

A set of B or C rear springs and especially a set of them with the common mods will be higher, but they may be higher than you really want when unloaded. To me, that's where a set of air bags shine due to their full adjustability. From your original post above your EX is only down at the rear by 1.5" from level (21" front vs 19.5" rear), so that's all that the bags would need to lift to get it level. And if you can adjust the PP to get a bit more weight distribution the rear squat will be less and the front will be a little lower, so even less lift from bags would be needed to level the EX.

I get it, you were looking for a worst case scenario, and I think you found it!
I try to limit the amount of gear strapped to the exterior of the EX or TT as I have seen stuff fall off other rigs on the highway and if you tow through rain or worse, snow everything outside gets very dirty. We carry kayaks on the EX roof and bikes on the rear TT hitch (try to keep them covered on longer or wet trips). And I'm building a rear platform to hold a set of Honda generators and fuel tank, but that will all be enclosed to keep the gennies clean and out of sight.
My experience has been build with lots of advice from this forum over the years as I worked to dial my EX/TT combo in to make it a better tow rig, lots of seasons guys here with great ideas.

 

I'm not that comfortable with testing it with unusually full tanks, simply because it might convince you to tail-heavy load the trailer in actual use. IMO it's far less safe to have too little tongue weight than too much, so test more realistic scenarios and never let yourself make it tail-heavy.