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  #31  
Old 01-10-2019, 04:47 PM
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I'll venture a guess about the why's of the perceived discrepancies ... but first up - I will assume your provided numbers are correct (maybe not?),
but in either case I believe this simplified explanation (making up bogus numbers here) will be helpful:

I have an assumed F250 that weighs 8000#, with an allowable cargo weight of 2000# - that equals a GVWR of 10000#. With no cargo it can pull a 14000# trailer. That's 8K + 14K, NOT 10K + 14K.

If instead of a trailer it's a 14000# fifth wheel then some of the fifths weight (lets assume 2000#) will be transferred to the truck, now the truck is at 10000# while the fifths axle weight is reduced to 12000#. That's 10K + 12K.

Again this is using made up numbers - none of which meet proper hitch (or pin) load recommendations. Many folks (generally those with limited cargo capacity) incorrectly assume that lighter bumper weights (or pin loadings) are easy/ cheap solutions - however this leads to an unsafe condition: for safe towing heavier weights are recommended/ beneficial - to better minimize trailer sway ... 'or the tail from wagging the dog'.

EDIT in: In response to those happy overloaded campers (if asked) I would say just because you can pull it doesn't mean it's advisable. Over-loading tires, axles, differentials, etc. is not advisable / nor helpful towards longevity; and lifting/ leveling airbags will do nothing towards unloading them. Your current truck could also pull these heavy trailers, but so could a Tacoma (if it was fitted with a proper hitch). Doing this long term = eventually something will break and then they're on the side of the road / waiting on a wrecker - with huge upcoming towing/ repair bills.

Err on the side of safety and purchase the right truck for the job, or pay later.
 
  #32  
Old 01-10-2019, 04:54 PM
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If you do decide on a 16K pound fifth - then go with a dually (FORD, Chevy, Dodge); AND ensure they've (Dealer) checked the appropriate order boxes for the heavier capacities.
Here are my two door stickers: NOTE the (optionally selected) GVWR of 14K and its subsequent payload of 5352 pounds.




 
  #33  
Old 01-10-2019, 05:14 PM
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My dually & 16K# Bighorn; with 20% - 25% (3200 - 4000 pounds) loaded on the pin I still have ample capacity for people (fat mother in law), pets, fuel, hitch, tools, wheel chocks, propane and grill, portable waste tank, etc, etc.

Towing prudently like grandpa, over basically level ground, I only realize 8 - 9 mpg; keep that in mind if you go that route.


 
  #34  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by romero969 View Post
Great information. I’ll keep you posted on course of action. I am contemplating getting a smaller RV. I have to see what will it take to get a F350 with the appropriate weight ratings.
I decided to stop by a local RV park and noticed a bunch of 3/4 ton trucks pulling heavy 5th wheels. I spoke to a three of them, and they claim to have no issues. I was just curious.
I just have another (probably silly) question.The max tow rating is 14,000 lbs, and the truck GVWR is 10,000 lbs.Why is the GCWR 22,000 lbs and not 24,000 lbs?
According to the feds, your maximum weight is the gcwr or the gvwr of the truck + the gvwr of the trailer, whichever is greater. So 24k is correct if pulling a 14k trailer or it would be 30k if pulling my 20k gooseneck.
 
  #35  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by romero969 View Post
Great information. I’ll keep you posted on course of action. I am contemplating getting a smaller RV. I have to see what will it take to get a F350 with the appropriate weight ratings.
I decided to stop by a local RV park and noticed a bunch of 3/4 ton trucks pulling heavy 5th wheels. I spoke to a three of them, and they claim to have no issues. I was just curious.
I just have another (probably silly) question.The max tow rating is 14,000 lbs, and the truck GVWR is 10,000 lbs.Why is the GCWR 22,000 lbs and not 24,000 lbs?
There are a lot of trucks towing heavier than they should. They “have no issues” because the drivetrain can normally pull it and the suspension, sometimes with help, can hold it. The Great Debate is along “legal” lines.
 
  #36  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by romero969 View Post
Great information. I’ll keep you posted on course of action. I am contemplating getting a smaller RV. I have to see what will it take to get a F350 with the appropriate weight ratings.
I decided to stop by a local RV park and noticed a bunch of 3/4 ton trucks pulling heavy 5th wheels. I spoke to a three of them, and they claim to have no issues. I was just curious.
I just have another (probably silly) question.The max tow rating is 14,000 lbs, and the truck GVWR is 10,000 lbs.Why is the GCWR 22,000 lbs and not 24,000 lbs?
I believe that part of the answer to the “no issues” question is that many, many people tow in conditions that are “a bit” less stressful than those used in the SAE J2807 tests used to certify the “maximum trailer weights”. This spec is cited several times in the RV and Trailer Towing Guide.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

and from https://www.natda.org/news/know-your...rrying-limits/

In a nutshell, SAE J2807 requires the vehicle manufacturer to use a vehicle equipped with the popular options found on at least 33 percent of the vehicles sold for that model; they also must run the test procedures with the equivalent of a 150-pound driver and passenger. The truck is hitched in a specific manner to a trailer that meets SAE specs and puts the tow vehicle (the pickup truck) at its maximum gross combined weight rating, meaning the combined weight of the pickup, its maximum payload, full fuel tank and the weight of the trailer.

Then a series of tests are conducted that target handling, trailer sway, braking, acceleration and component durability. The tests also include driving up the Davis Dam, a 7 percent grade that runs eastward out of Laughlin, Nev., for 11 miles to the top of the 3,500-foot summit in daytime temperatures of 100 degrees with the air conditioning going full blast. The vehicle manufacturer looks at all the data and decides what towing limits to place on that particular make/model vehicle.

If a vehicle is described as “J2807 compliant,” then its towing capacity and resulting limitations regarding the use of weight-distributing fifth-wheel and gooseneck hitches has been done using the SAE standards.


Not suggesting that it’s OK to exceed the GAWR, GVWR, or GCWR specs. In addition to “towing” tests (I.e. acceleration and climbing), the spec include tests for handling and braking.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer
 


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