Hey all, posted a couple of weeks ago about doing the readylift 2.5 with track bar bracket. I also added the 2.0 degree castor. Truck drove straight and felt like stock. Put new tires on so I thought I better do an alignment. After the alignment I felt I noticed a right pull. Took it back after 500 miles yesterday and now we have gone even further backwards. The shop took my 2 degree cam out on passenger side and turned it a different direction. It also looks like they mauled the heck out of it as well. When I went in shop they had drivers side at 3.5 castor but passenger was only 2.6. They now want to order a 1 degree shim for the passenger side? Wouldn't this go even further backwards? I'm debating going to my shop today and put the castor shim back in the way the instructions say. So frustrating to take it in normal and now I'm worse off.

 

Hey Sterling,

I went through some issues like this with a 2016 F-350 with a 2.5 Carli Kit. I really believe that the lack of knowledge on how to set up Caster and the cams themselves is why so many people have front end issues on these trucks.

I am by no means a mechanic but I would find a new shop because shimming a cam sounds really bad considering you should just install a properly degreed cam to start with.

Ive been told by engineer friends of mine who work for Ford that in an ideal world 5 degree caster is where you want to be.

Unfortunately in regard to the front end and how it works on these trucks that is really tough to achieve. Some trucks are better than others from the factory.

Shimming a cheap part just sounds like another step backwards for you in getting your truck to have proper Caster.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with you and maybe it can give you some help in regard to getting it right.

 

Hey thanks Tim, I did put in the 2 degree SPC castor cam I got from carli. The shop turned the one side which they came with instructions how to be installed. They now want to go to a 1 degree which would lower the castor even more. That's what I can't figure out their objective. We need to increase castor not decrease.

 

Yes it needs to be increased IMHO.

Some of the shops here on the front range in Denver are so bad they don't even install the cams!

They put the truck on the alignment rack and just say your good to go.

I forget the name of the manufacturer of these cams? They come in a red box with an Indian Chief on them and can be ordered in various sizes. (Specialty Products?)

And also remember that all tires have a certain characteristics to them. If I remember right Toyo told me that the ATs will always pull a little right?

Better Steering Stabilizers generally fix that issue.

Wish I could be of more help to you.

I would insist on brand new cams installed properly.

 

 

That's what I'm thinking as well. I may return to them this morning to have them put the cam back in that they took out and turned it and hopefully not damaged. Very disappointed in their service. And they were highly recommend.

 

Tim,

I am also by no means a mechanic, but I have done a bit of my own work on cars and trucks. I have never messed with a front suspension, particularly on a Ford Super Duty truck. I have begun an education process of the front suspension of the Super Duty because I am taking delivery of a 2019 F-350 4x4 Lariat Ultimate 6.7L in a couple of weeks. In particular, it is the problem of Sustained Steering Wheel Oscillation (Death Wobble) that is the reason for my education. To be clear, I am trying to understand what Ford has done in TSB 18-2268 wherein they recommend replacement of the steering stabilizer and adjustment of castor. There are several caster adjusters in the TSB "kit" that amount to 2-1/4 degrees of caster adjustment. However, there is no information in the TSB that stipulates what the caster should be adjusted to.

One owner on this forum posted the caster angles on his truck after the TSB was implemented and his truck aligned - L/F +2.8, R/F +2.4. These came from the printout following alignment. I read somewhere that the maximum caster angle on a Super Duty is +5 degrees. I saw that your Ford engineer friend said +5 is where you want to be. I do not understand caster angles well enough yet to be able to evaluate the result of different caster angles on the front suspension of a Ford Super Duty truck, or any vehicle for that matter. I am probably asking too much, but do you have an understanding of why such a high caster angle would be "ideal"? Any chance you can pose this question to your engineer friend?

I am also interested in what you consider a good steering stabilizer. I suspect that the answer will include a Fox ATS 2.0 or a King, two of which I've seen discussed in this forum. I do not yet understand why these stabilizers are so much better than the stock one that Ford uses. Did you change out your stabilizer, and if so, what did you use?

 

I will certainly reach out to him to find out.

I had extensive conversations with Carli also during this process and they were great about trying to help and also were in agreement with the numbers and the fact that there is a hill to climb in regard to these trucks with Caster with some being better than others.

I ran a Carli single steering Stabilizer on my 2016. It was really good quality but can't say it made that much of a difference.

Its just like anything that is put together like these trucks are. Some are just better than others. My 2016 was not a good one in regard to Caster from the factory.

I finally was able to get it straight but it was a long uphill battle and also more money than it was worth in my opinion. We eventually were able to get both sides to about 3 degrees and that was it.

My 2018 which is new drives way tighter than my 2016 ever did. This could be just due to overall improvements of the truck itself also.

I really think these trucks look great leveled especially with 37" tires.

I'm never going to do it again though. About 2 weeks into my last project I had just wished I left everything alone due to the frustration of trying to get it right which I eventually was able to.

Maybe I'm just getting old!

P.S. I also just heard back from my friend at Ford and he said anything above 3 degree's is liveable and that 5 is probably asking for too much.

 

 

 

 

This, getting my thread back on track. My truck was perfect after the level. I (bad choice) opted to get alignment checked because of new tires and not wanting to scuff them. I now regret that decision.

 

I certainly didn't intend to hijack your thread Sterling 47ag; I apologize. So I will ask some questions relative to your OP. You say that you added "the 2 degree caster". Did you use a bushing? I don't understand completely how to adjust caster, specifically on a late model Super Duty truck. From what I've read and seen, shims are used on leaf spring suspensions and bushings on coil spring suspensions. I'm not asking to be snotty; I'm asking to get a better understanding of how caster is adjusted on late model Super Duty trucks.

When did your truck have +3.5 degrees of caster on the driver's side and +2.6 on the passenger side, after the shop did the alignment with the new tires or after you raised your truck but before the shop changed things? I'm asking because of what another owner said on this forum, that his truck had the following caster angles after Ford got done aligning it: L/F +2.8, R/F +2.4. This guy's truck also had a higher caster angle on the driver's side than the passenger's side. I'm also asking because I saw a video where some guy said that +3 degrees of caster, presumably on both sides, made his truck drive straight and smooth. Based on Tim's reply to my post this morning, wherein he talked to his Ford engineer buddy, it seems like "3 degree's is livable and that 5 is probably asking for too much". So it would seem like the 3.5 degrees you had was good. But again, I have to ask what the caster angles were when your truck drove "straight and felt like stock?" I really want to understand what the optimum caster angles are if that is possible.

 

I'm not sure on some of those questions Tim. They seemed a bit secretive on giving me a print off. The 3.5 drivers and 2.6 was after the alignment. I'm not sure what my numbers were from the beginner or say right after the level. So this morning the owner of shop called and sent me to his son in laws shop just a few more miles away. They have me driving straight again. He used the 2 degree castor sleeve. He turned the passenger side one back to the way I originally had it. So final numbers were drivers 2.9 castor and passenger is 2.6 castor. Not sure if I should be happy with those castor numbers but it is driving very nice again. Picture is similar to what I used for castor but both mine were 2 degree. Debating trying these. The degree difference on these I believe is taking out the crown of the road.

 

Those are the same ones that Carli issued with my kit.

I was right around the same numbers you are mentioning here and the truck drove out pretty good.

I will mention one other sort of related thing here and I was reluctant to do it even based on Toyo telling me to do it along with Carli also. I was running 45 pounds in the front and 40 in the rear on that F-350 6.7 with 35" Toyo AT 2s Extremes. No load or trailering.

It was almost a miracle on how much better the truck drove. I think the inflation might have helped the Caster issue a little to the good for whatever reason?

And my tread wear was as good as it gets. Just a little FYI