alignment
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From: Virginia
Just ask them what they include. A few years ago I called around, everyone wanted back then $60 for an alignment. They will ask you what vehicle you have. I found another place that asked me what vehicle I had, and said they only would charge me $30. So I went to get it done there. In the middle of that visit they come out to tell me I will need the caster and camber changed, and the bushings I had may or may not be enough. I got a little aggravated with them and said "you quoted me only $30". They proceed to explain that was for a toe adjustment only. They continue to explain that adjusting the bushings was going to be $60, and if I needed new bushings they were going to be $45 each. So this $30 alignment suddenly went to around $150.
I knew they were about the same price as everyone else once they told me what they were going to do, so even though I was a little mad, I told them to continue on. Turns out my bushings were aftermarket already, and had enough adjustment to get it in, so I only had to pay the $60. Just make sure when they do the alignment, they give you the printout of the alignment sheet for your truck from the alignment machine. Everything on the sheet should be green print. Anything red means it's too far out.
I knew they were about the same price as everyone else once they told me what they were going to do, so even though I was a little mad, I told them to continue on. Turns out my bushings were aftermarket already, and had enough adjustment to get it in, so I only had to pay the $60. Just make sure when they do the alignment, they give you the printout of the alignment sheet for your truck from the alignment machine. Everything on the sheet should be green print. Anything red means it's too far out.
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Dave, I did, and am not tracking. I agree alignment around $70 most places. I didn’t know caster and chamber adjustment wasn’t included, and they couldn’t clearly articulate that. So, how are caster and chamber adjusted...twisting the offset bushings or changing them. What other parts required, I guess new radius rod bushings, but mine looked great and truck drove straight before and stuff, just had a frozen tie rod. So I changed them and new ball joints and shocks, pads, calipers, etc etc
i don’t understand how this could be $400 deal.
i don’t understand how this could be $400 deal.
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I wouldn’t have blinked at $150 quote. But at $400, I had questions with unsatisfying responses too vague and nebulous for my small mind. Come Monday, I will catch the mechanic who was gone for the weekend, since others there in staff cannot explain to me, and ether I’ll be enlightened or I’ll be paying a tow, as I made no attempt and knew I was going to tow vs trying driveway alignment stuff at end. By the end of this, my AARP self was beat frOm cement, and ball joint press shenanigans.
it said all the world to me, they waited til he was gone and unavailable to call to provide me quote. And I stated so.
it said all the world to me, they waited til he was gone and unavailable to call to provide me quote. And I stated so.
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From: Virginia
Radius rod bushings are not part of the alignment. They are a part just like the tie rod ends and balljoints, either they are good or they are not.
If your truck is stock with stock springs and no lift spacers of any kind, the bushings you have stock should bring it in. When you replaced the upper balljoints, I guess you noticed the little eccentric bushing that surrounded the upper balljoint stud? That is the big deal. They have to bust that upper balljoint loose, and then turn that eccentric bushing (it's more like a sleeve) that moves the position of the upper balljoint in relation to everything else. They have to hit it as close as they can, both caster and camber are adjusted at the same time with that one bushing. When I replaced mine I knew they would have to get in there, so I put never seize on it so it would come loose ok.
$400 is a little high to just bust the top balljoints loose. I would keep looking around for someone to do it. Even with all the TV programs exposing crooked mechanics, they still do it, and not just to women but men also. Being educated about it is your best defense.
If your truck is stock with stock springs and no lift spacers of any kind, the bushings you have stock should bring it in. When you replaced the upper balljoints, I guess you noticed the little eccentric bushing that surrounded the upper balljoint stud? That is the big deal. They have to bust that upper balljoint loose, and then turn that eccentric bushing (it's more like a sleeve) that moves the position of the upper balljoint in relation to everything else. They have to hit it as close as they can, both caster and camber are adjusted at the same time with that one bushing. When I replaced mine I knew they would have to get in there, so I put never seize on it so it would come loose ok.
$400 is a little high to just bust the top balljoints loose. I would keep looking around for someone to do it. Even with all the TV programs exposing crooked mechanics, they still do it, and not just to women but men also. Being educated about it is your best defense.
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I guess I did notice the eccentric bushing, since it’s the one that fell loose when I installed new ball joints. That’s the root of this whole thread. And my unsatisfying discussion with the store regarding why loss of correct factory position creates “basically have to take whole front apart $400 part”. So again, other than removing the cotter pin and nut, I believe, one could get channel locks on the eccentric sides and work it around and turn it.
I’m not sure pressing out s brand new ball joint, turning it .025, and pressing ball joint completely back into place and repeat as necessary is required. I think the root of my question is why can’t eccentric be turn once cotte and nut removed, granted wth varying force, and channel lock pliers. Heck, they probably use a special tool to turn it.
that also contradicts what store manager said, they cannot push out ball joints and reuse it, that’s against store policy. I explained how a ball joint press worked but they were lost. So, according to their store policy, they’d sure go though a pile of ball joints if they have to use a new one every time they press it out to move eccentric.
What did I expect? Alignment fees AND them to drum up another $150 on top of that for made up stuff that wasn’t really true or required. Because I know they no doubt don’t appreciate someone doing their job they charge $1200 for and breaking it down into what home home owner can do for 1/4 the price. So I figured on them padding the job, but this is ridiculous.
I’m not sure pressing out s brand new ball joint, turning it .025, and pressing ball joint completely back into place and repeat as necessary is required. I think the root of my question is why can’t eccentric be turn once cotte and nut removed, granted wth varying force, and channel lock pliers. Heck, they probably use a special tool to turn it.
that also contradicts what store manager said, they cannot push out ball joints and reuse it, that’s against store policy. I explained how a ball joint press worked but they were lost. So, according to their store policy, they’d sure go though a pile of ball joints if they have to use a new one every time they press it out to move eccentric.
What did I expect? Alignment fees AND them to drum up another $150 on top of that for made up stuff that wasn’t really true or required. Because I know they no doubt don’t appreciate someone doing their job they charge $1200 for and breaking it down into what home home owner can do for 1/4 the price. So I figured on them padding the job, but this is ridiculous.
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This is freshly reassembled front end with all new tie rods and ball joints and the eccentric in question fell out upon removal and I hadn’t marked it well enough to relocate. It and the brand new Moog ball joint splines received antiseize upon reassembly. I’m a nut job for anti seize and the copper infused equivalent for electrical. Truck has 1/8 mile on it. Carried it down, no miles driving. It should come apart very smooth and nice.
Heres another thing bothering me, wouldn’t you call the customer while your alignment guy is there and it’s in the rack, to tell them what all’s wrong, or would you remove it from rack, back it back out and park it, then wait for alignment guy to leave and let the office guys try to blow smoke? Herein lies the rub, I made zero attempt on shooting for toe in and out, because I knew when I couldn’t find my marks on the eccentric location all was lost on a quick and cheap $70 alignment.
now, I might better understand if I go down there tomorrow and he removes the cotter pin and nut and shows me he can’t twist and pull and hammer tap that eccentric loose. At that point, I can better understand.
i bet they can hit that eccentric a certain way, and turn it wth a chisel and hammer or air impact, BUT, I may eat my words and admit how hardheaded an old man can be. And be wrong. It does happen more, getting older ain’t for sissies.
Heres another thing bothering me, wouldn’t you call the customer while your alignment guy is there and it’s in the rack, to tell them what all’s wrong, or would you remove it from rack, back it back out and park it, then wait for alignment guy to leave and let the office guys try to blow smoke? Herein lies the rub, I made zero attempt on shooting for toe in and out, because I knew when I couldn’t find my marks on the eccentric location all was lost on a quick and cheap $70 alignment.
now, I might better understand if I go down there tomorrow and he removes the cotter pin and nut and shows me he can’t twist and pull and hammer tap that eccentric loose. At that point, I can better understand.
i bet they can hit that eccentric a certain way, and turn it wth a chisel and hammer or air impact, BUT, I may eat my words and admit how hardheaded an old man can be. And be wrong. It does happen more, getting older ain’t for sissies.
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Fleet Mechanic
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From: Atlantic Canada
When I took the front end apart in my 1984, the factory bushings were 0 degree...meaning no offset/non-eccentric.
My truck aligned perfectly (within spec) with the original 0 degree bushings installed. However, I had new everything installed....all new ball joints, inner and outer tie-rods, radius arm bushings, and rubber spring seat pads. All that was required was a slight toe adjustment, and I was good to go. Truck tracks straight as an arrow, albeit with a sloppy steering box...lol.
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I assume them to be original ones, truck has 90k it drove straight but scary due to a torn boot and one tie rod freezing due to water, grime, rust, which obviously wore other side into jello, you could hold out old suspension and shake it hard and tie rod would wiggle like a bell clapper. I’m pretty good at telling if something’s ever been touched and I’m convinced mine had never received any maintenance in any regard. Driven by an old paw paw, clearly, and nothing was repaired, oiled, changed, etc.
only thing someone had done was removed the eec stuff and installed correct coil, and duraspark 2 setup, which is a good thing. I’m tolerating the stock 2 barrel until I get front end deal all squared away to determine if my AOD even does have overdrive left. I don’t believe it does. While I’ve driven truck some before tearing into fixes, it steered so spooky I never got it past about 50. But, it should have went into overdrive and it never did. So, at some point, I’m sure I’ll just think of it as a 3 speed automatic, and bolt on an aluminum intake and Holley or edelbrock 600 and not worry about burning out overdrive.
As slways, I do thank everyone for bth their time to read, ponder, respond, etc, a fellow old truck fan.
only thing someone had done was removed the eec stuff and installed correct coil, and duraspark 2 setup, which is a good thing. I’m tolerating the stock 2 barrel until I get front end deal all squared away to determine if my AOD even does have overdrive left. I don’t believe it does. While I’ve driven truck some before tearing into fixes, it steered so spooky I never got it past about 50. But, it should have went into overdrive and it never did. So, at some point, I’m sure I’ll just think of it as a 3 speed automatic, and bolt on an aluminum intake and Holley or edelbrock 600 and not worry about burning out overdrive.
As slways, I do thank everyone for bth their time to read, ponder, respond, etc, a fellow old truck fan.
Fleet Mechanic
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From: Atlantic Canada
Well, if they are the original bushings, then they may not be eccentrics at all, and you have nothing to worry about regarding their position. The original ones in my 1984 F150 2wd were both zero degree bushings. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I assumed they left the assembly line with zero degree bushings and the only way the offset/eccentric bushings end up in there is if they're installed for an alignment later on.
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Well, then I’m wrong. Because I do recall as soon as I realized it’d fell out looking down at and realizing it was sorta egg shape and as I reinstalled I do recall it did space things by its rotating. I recall thinking what a novel idea to minimize parts and could see how it’s relatiOnship effected change. A rotating cam setup kinda thing. So, it must NOT have been zero. It did have tires probably slightly larger than stock maybe on stock steel rims. I do know they’re 15, but they seem kinda larger than they’d have been stock, but it’s stock steel rim. I know I’ve done that on steel rims before, to make things look a little beefier, tell them to fit the biggest size tire they can fit on that rim. So, looking st these prior to install, they’re not a straight shot visually.
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Just jumped on flea bay for reference points in my mind, those eccentric bushing deals are around 30 bucks each. So perhaps he was trying to mentally prepare me, at $60-$70 per shot, and it might take 3 shots, I could be out 200 in eccentrics before it’s over? I’m guessing maybe that means I have to buy an assortment to truly nail it down good, and I get to take the eccentrics that didn’t correct enough home in a little box with me....
Post Fiend
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From: St Albert, Alberta
Just jumped on flea bay for reference points in my mind, those eccentric bushing deals are around 30 bucks each. So perhaps he was trying to mentally prepare me, at $60-$70 per shot, and it might take 3 shots, I could be out 200 in eccentrics before it’s over? I’m guessing maybe that means I have to buy an assortment to truly nail it down good, and I get to take the eccentrics that didn’t correct enough home in a little box with me....
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From: Virginia
Yes, I think the alignment machine tells them what they need to bring it in. I am sure there are some trucks that the alignment falls right into place and they do not need any eccentricity in the bushings, but with production tolerances, some do. Mine needed a lot of eccentricity, but it has a 4 inch lift on it, and it was all done before I bought it. I like you, just took it all apart and put it back together, not paying attention to the sleeve position.
I have never done it, but I am pretty sure they will have to take the cotter pins out of both the upper and the lower balljoint nuts, loosen the nuts about a turn or two, and then smack down on the spindle to break it loose. If you remember, the ball joint had a taper to it's shaft, it is wedged in there tight when the nut is tightened down. I am thinking that puts outward pressure on the eccentric sleeve, wedging it in the spindle, making it impossible to turn without relieving the pressure somehow.
You need to go to another store and find someone who knows what they are doing. Go down to the Ford dealer and find a old coot who used to work on these trucks, they will know all about it. They may even be reasonable in their alignment charge.
I have never done it, but I am pretty sure they will have to take the cotter pins out of both the upper and the lower balljoint nuts, loosen the nuts about a turn or two, and then smack down on the spindle to break it loose. If you remember, the ball joint had a taper to it's shaft, it is wedged in there tight when the nut is tightened down. I am thinking that puts outward pressure on the eccentric sleeve, wedging it in the spindle, making it impossible to turn without relieving the pressure somehow.
You need to go to another store and find someone who knows what they are doing. Go down to the Ford dealer and find a old coot who used to work on these trucks, they will know all about it. They may even be reasonable in their alignment charge.
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Had my truck removed from the shop trying to rob me. Intend to try to learn how to get alignment closer at home, maybe I can get it good enough to where I can drive around to get estimates. Too many creepy vibes from these guys, I’d rather be out a tow fee and spend more time fooling with it and get it close enough so modern shops won’t not be scared to work on it.
i have to wonder why shops tend to not want to touch older vehicles, yet won’t come right out and say it.
the tow driver even pointed out the truck was in same exact spot and manner in which he’d left it. I don’t think they looked at squat, they were just going to sit on it unless I was a sucker.
i have to wonder why shops tend to not want to touch older vehicles, yet won’t come right out and say it.
the tow driver even pointed out the truck was in same exact spot and manner in which he’d left it. I don’t think they looked at squat, they were just going to sit on it unless I was a sucker.