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Here’s my second oil change analysis using chevron 5w/40 Delo 400 LE CJ-4 full synthetic oil and motorcraft oil filter. I can no longer find this CJ-4 rated oil and have settled for Rotella T6 5w/40 CK-4 oil for now.
Rotella T6 with the rebate is about the same price or less than a good Dino oil. I’m paying $46.69 for 3 gallons at Sams club https://www.samsclub.com/sams/shell-...lp_product_1_1 and Shell rebate is $21. That’s $25.69 for 3 gallons. That’s only $2.14/qt.
I’ve ordered 3 cases of 3 gallons each and so far shell sent me $63 in rebate checks.
Price shopping is always subject to the efforts you put into it. But to do an "apples to apples" comparison, you have to look at retail-to-retail, or sale-to-sale.
Mobil often has a sale on their Delvac 1300; and you can often find a rebate on that. It was not long ago that their MIR was $5 off the retail price; I got some for $7/gallon ($1.75/qrt). I got some Peak 15w-40 on sale at AAP for $7.99/gal right off the shelf, with no MIR required. Peak has sales on their lubes. So does Castrol. And many others. I had someone actually GIVE ME some FREE Castrol Tection Extra because he sold his diesel truck and didn't need the lube any longer. My point is that you can always find a bargain somewhere, and you may or may not find the "best deal ever" just depending upon what rock you're looking under, versus where the next guy looks. Bargains come and go. For any sale you can show me on a syn, I can find a better price on a rebated/sale dino oil. If syns were ALWAYS cheaper to buy than dino oils, then why would any of the lube marketers ever bother to make dino oil in the first place? Dino lubes are ALWAYS cheaper, if you compare apples to apples, retail to retail, sale to sale, etc.
Or maybe Delvac: https://www.mobil.com/en/mobil-delva...-diesel-domain
$7 off per gallon right now. https://www.samsclub.com/sams/mobil-...lp_product_1_1
$11.59/gallon minus the $7/gallon rebate is only $4.59 per gallon!!!!!! (limit 10 gallons) The Sams price is equivalent (with rebate) to $1.15 per quart!!!!!! That is still about 1/2 the cost of what you paid for the joy of using a synthetic lube that has proven to be nothing extra in terms of wear control.
I'm not saying you didn't get a good deal; you certainly did.
But let's not pretend like you also can't get a better deal on a cheaper lube. A cheaper lube that still is qualified to the Ford spec, and will do the very same job with the very same results, for any typical OCI.
I assume you are referring to his OCI being short.
My my guess is he is trying to flush the break in materials out early. I did the same thing.
Another good reason though to use synthetic even woth 3,000 mile OCI’s is cold weather. Synthetics flow much better when cold compared to Dino oils.
yes - the short OCI but also the use of a syn.
Syns certainly do have some benefit in cold temps. But that benefit does not really start to be tangible until you're at -20F or below. Not windchill, but actual ambient temps. Whereas some of the folks here do have concerns about "cold" temps, the concern is far overblown by many and simply used as a justification to an otherwise wasted in purchase. I've seen posts from guys in VA and TN that worry about "cold starts" and so they buy syn fluids. Please .... What a crock of manure.
Anyone can spend their hard earned money in a manner which makes them happy; I have no problem with that. That exception I take is when they try to convince me it's somehow a necessity, as if the engine would screech to a halt if syn wasn't in the crankcase. You can find a good quality dino 10w-30 that has nearly (not exactly, but close to) the same CPP as a 5w-40 if you shop around and know what to look for.
Syns certainly do have some benefit in cold temps. But that benefit does not really start to be tangible until you're at -20F or below. Not windchill, but actual ambient temps. Whereas some of the folks here do have concerns about "cold" temps, the concern is far overblown by many and simply used as a justification to an otherwise wasted in purchase. I've seen posts from guys in VA and TN that worry about "cold starts" and so they buy syn fluids. Please .... What a crock of manure.
Anyone can spend their hard earned money in a manner which makes them happy; I have no problem with that. That exception I take is when they try to convince me it's somehow a necessity, as if the engine would screech to a halt if syn wasn't in the crankcase. You can find a good quality dino 10w-30 that has nearly (not exactly, but close to) the same CPP as a 5w-40 if you shop around and know what to look for.
I agree with all that you said.
I think the differences are at the extremes though.
Synthetic won't make an engine last forever and even a crappy dino oil won't destroy and engine at 100,000 miles if OCI's are followed.
The improvement is in the extra measure of protection that someone gets. Say their engine isn't perfect from the factory...possibly using dino would show that issue at 150,000 miles and Synthetic may allow the engine to run till 200,000 miles.
Or under extreme towing someone could make the argument synthetic oils do protect better which is a condition many super duty trucks see every day.
Look up 4 ball wear tests or shear tests and see if synthetics beat dino's.
Or extended oil change intervals and why sythetics do better than dino's.
I do agree though if someone is doing short oil change intervals and they are not hard on their trucks engines then a dino will do just as well as a synthetic.
I assume you are referring to his OCI being short.
My my guess is he is trying to flush the break in materials out early. I did the same thing.
Another good reason though to use synthetic even woth 3,000 mile OCI’s is cold weather. Synthetics flow much better when cold compared to Dino oils.
Thats exactly what I’m doing. All new cars I’ve purchased I’ve changed the oil sooner for the first two to three changes and that has never let me down. Oil is a helluva lot cheaper than engine component issues. Sure it’s under warranty but I also don’t want down time, and want it to last far after warranty is over.
I live in the mountains at 6000’ and yes I choose the 5w/40 for those cold mornings. I also tow occasionally very heavy through the mountains up to 11-12k feet with sometimes 25k lbs plus. I don’t drive the truck enough to change out winter/summer viscosity oils so 5w/40 just makes sense for covering all the bases. I still plug in the block heater at home during the winter even with 5w/40 because I can. Why not give your engine the best possible chances of low wear on initial cold start-ups?
I’d like to know more about this valvetrain wear issue on the 6.7 that caused all the drama when the API classification changed from CJ-4 to CK-4? Does anyone know what exactly was the problem? I can hardly imagine the roller cam and lifters would be the issue? Possibly the rocker arm pivot points and valve stem wear? Idk.
Wow, that is concerning on the iron! Is that the V-6 TD?
Yes...a 3.0 Bluetech. Never again will I own or lease one a vehicle from that manufacturer. It was my wifes dream car and by the time the lease was over she was done with the brand. Now she's a Ford girl and our vehicle problems are long behind!
I think the differences are at the extremes though.
Synthetic won't make an engine last forever and even a crappy dino oil won't destroy and engine at 100,000 miles if OCI's are followed.
The improvement is in the extra measure of protection that someone gets. Say their engine isn't perfect from the factory...possibly using dino would show that issue at 150,000 miles and Synthetic may allow the engine to run till 200,000 miles.
Or under extreme towing someone could make the argument synthetic oils do protect better which is a condition many super duty trucks see every day.
Look up 4 ball wear tests or shear tests and see if synthetics beat dino's.
Or extended oil change intervals and why sythetics do better than dino's.
I do agree though if someone is doing short oil change intervals and they are not hard on their trucks engines then a dino will do just as well as a synthetic.
My personal experience with synthetic is that there is about 5% gas mileage improvement over a good dino oil. That little bit helps to offset the added cost. I'm averaging about 19 mpg highway when not towing and about 11 mpg when towing a 14,000 5th wheel.
But more importantly synthetic is slicker and helps with engine longevity as long as the engine is broken in properly. I am using the same logic with my trucks that I use when I break in a new or overhauled piston aircraft engine. Use dino oil until everything is seated then switch to a synthetic with a history of good results. I have probably sent in over a hundred oil samples to Blackstone on my aircraft but only a few on cars and trucks.
I change truck oil as follows. First oil change at 1500 miles and fill with Motorcraft dino oil. Next oil change 3500 miles later and again fill with Motorcraft dino oil. Then run that for 5,000 more miles and at 10,000 on the odometer switch to synthetic. Then every 5000 miles thereafter with synthetic. Currently using either Valvoline Diesel Premium Blue Extreme or Shell Rotella T6.
Doing the math, at 15 MPG average I would burn 333 gallons of diesel in 5000 miles. So at $3/gallon that's $999. A 5% savings is about $50 which is what it costs me to change my own oil with synthetic. So the cost savings in MPG pays for 5000 mile synthetic oil changes.
4-ball wear tests do not, in any way, represent what happens in an engine. They are a carnival side-show tool to impress the uninformed.
The main controlling entites of wear are the tribo-chemical barrier (see SAE study done by Ford/Conoco #2007-01-4133), and soot control (anti-agglomerate additive and dispersants in lube).
I have two Mercury Grand Marquis at home; 2005 with 254k miles on it and a 2007 with 125k miles on it. I've run testing on many various oil choices; did UOAs, PCs, etc. The ultra-cheap Rural King conventional lube provided just as much wear protection as did the expensive syns like Peak and others. The base stock of a lube rarely ever makes any difference to the wear rates; the examples of proof are fractionally infintessimal in quantity.
The main benefits of a syn are:
1) at UBER STUPID COLD TEMPS they do pump easier which can help the engine start (-25F and below)
2) the syn base stock will last longer in service; but I'm talking about the tangible difference showing up around 25k miles or longer, not the typical "Oh my, I ran 6k miles and I'm way overdue for an oil change" ....
I have over 15,000 UOAs in my database. I've studied UOAs and written articles on the normalcy of engine wear. I do statistical process quality control for a living. If one wishes to debate this, please bring proof, cite your sources, and leave the marketing manure behind.
Well, I guess we can put me in the uninformed category. That's OK...I happily accept you putting me in that position.
The benefits of synthetic oils vs dino have been debated for decades by much smarter people than me. Just hop over to BITOG forum and spend a few hours over there. You can read debates on the best engine oils, dino vs synthetic, viscosity grades, TBN's, TAN's, etc.
I'm not in a position to debate this any better than those people have in the past.
I will keep using my 5w40 synthetic since it's a recommended oil for heavy use by Ford and as long as my Blackstone reports come back strong, just like the gentlemen's original post in this thread, then I see no need to save a few bucks by switching to a dino oil. Also, if my reports starting coming back with issues I likely wouldn't think, "Oh man, that synthetic oil from AMSoil is killing my engine, I better switch to a cheapo dino oil asap." I would likely move to another synthetic at that point...which, granted, is unlikely to happen.
Enjoy your truck...nothing better than a Super Duty!
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