Head and block surface cleaning
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 765
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
Head and block surface cleaning
I have searched and most of the threads are years old. Not sure if anything has changed with time.
Some say to get a honing block and use brake clean with sandpaper up to 1500 grit to prep the block. Some use the 3m discs. Some say do not use 3m discs no matter what. Some sand with their fingers only. Most however say to use the Ford metal prep and a plastic scraper. Some say a brass scraper. Some say just clean it of all gasket material and no more.
The Ford cleaner is almost 200 bucks for a can. Will another manufacturers gasket cleaner along with some plastic scrapers be good enough?
The some say to send the heads out to get magnafluxed and decked. Some say it is not worth it. DieselTech Ron indicated in his head video that he has never had a head warped out of Ford spec of .004 cross wise and that they all show surface cracks.
My current plan is to get the heads and block cleaned with some gasket cleaner, maybe some brake clean if needed and plastic scrapers. Then put them back on with new Ford gaskets. Not sending them out for anything as long as the visual inspection looks good.
While the heads are off I am going to address a broken manifold bolt and replace them all.
Any comments or suggestions on "The Plan"?
Some say to get a honing block and use brake clean with sandpaper up to 1500 grit to prep the block. Some use the 3m discs. Some say do not use 3m discs no matter what. Some sand with their fingers only. Most however say to use the Ford metal prep and a plastic scraper. Some say a brass scraper. Some say just clean it of all gasket material and no more.
The Ford cleaner is almost 200 bucks for a can. Will another manufacturers gasket cleaner along with some plastic scrapers be good enough?
The some say to send the heads out to get magnafluxed and decked. Some say it is not worth it. DieselTech Ron indicated in his head video that he has never had a head warped out of Ford spec of .004 cross wise and that they all show surface cracks.
My current plan is to get the heads and block cleaned with some gasket cleaner, maybe some brake clean if needed and plastic scrapers. Then put them back on with new Ford gaskets. Not sending them out for anything as long as the visual inspection looks good.
While the heads are off I am going to address a broken manifold bolt and replace them all.
Any comments or suggestions on "The Plan"?
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,829
Likes: 3,114
From: Jersey Shore
Totally agree with the lack of detail and consistency.
I have a different method, the video in process, going to be edited and I can’t do the narrative right now, but there’s no way i’m publically going to show it until I actually have the motor together and working, don’t need all the second guessing beforehand. It’s based on what I’ve done with small block Ford’s.
I’ll send you a PM. It's a bit more then "The Plan", but I'm nuts.
I have a different method, the video in process, going to be edited and I can’t do the narrative right now, but there’s no way i’m publically going to show it until I actually have the motor together and working, don’t need all the second guessing beforehand. It’s based on what I’ve done with small block Ford’s.
I’ll send you a PM. It's a bit more then "The Plan", but I'm nuts.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,910
Likes: 18
From: NW IA
Way too many opinions on this floating around.......not meant as a dig to you Jack, I'm sure you think the same thing.
I'm in agreement here with you though, I think the whole thing has been beat to death when it boils down to the simple machining ideas I was taught years ago. They don't even have an engine machining class anymore where I went to tech school and now my son attends, sad really. Grinding cranks was my favorite. Getting things down to ten thousandths, tricks with the steady rest, straitening things.........lost arts.
I'll also add I know a few guys that are 6.0 experts, they say the same thing about overdoing it with all the machining. If it's not out of spec it's not broken and best leave it along.
I'm in agreement here with you though, I think the whole thing has been beat to death when it boils down to the simple machining ideas I was taught years ago. They don't even have an engine machining class anymore where I went to tech school and now my son attends, sad really. Grinding cranks was my favorite. Getting things down to ten thousandths, tricks with the steady rest, straitening things.........lost arts.
I'll also add I know a few guys that are 6.0 experts, they say the same thing about overdoing it with all the machining. If it's not out of spec it's not broken and best leave it along.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,829
Likes: 3,114
From: Jersey Shore
Not taking it as one Mike. We actually share some of the same background, and it’s why I’m comfortable with what I’m doin
I’ll be the first to admit I’m going off the deep end, but it’s something to me is worth trying, and in salvaging the POS I bought.
Deleted everything else, I’m just in a bad mood today.
I’ll be the first to admit I’m going off the deep end, but it’s something to me is worth trying, and in salvaging the POS I bought.
Deleted everything else, I’m just in a bad mood today.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,829
Likes: 3,114
From: Jersey Shore
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 13
Last time I did it, I hit both heads and block with green scotch-brite cookies on a high speed, cleaned with MEK, went over everything with a sharpening stone and wd-40, cleaned again with MEK, burned off the surface of everything with alcohol and torch and then checked everything for true with a known straight straight-edge.
I also used Fel-Pro gaskets and over torqued the studs to 250 ft.lbs. I run the WPE extreme tune as a daily and haven't had a problem since. I also have a coolant pressure gauge installed in my dash and never see over 4 psi.
EDIT: Brown scotch-brite cookies....
I also used Fel-Pro gaskets and over torqued the studs to 250 ft.lbs. I run the WPE extreme tune as a daily and haven't had a problem since. I also have a coolant pressure gauge installed in my dash and never see over 4 psi.
EDIT: Brown scotch-brite cookies....
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Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 765
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
You broke the golden rule, no cookies! And your motor did not implode? LOL
Since the Ford metal surface cleaner is alomost 200 bucks I ordered some CRC Gasket cleaner. Good, bad?
It seems no matter hwo you do it, as long as you clean it well there should be no issues.
Since the Ford metal surface cleaner is alomost 200 bucks I ordered some CRC Gasket cleaner. Good, bad?
It seems no matter hwo you do it, as long as you clean it well there should be no issues.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,829
Likes: 3,114
From: Jersey Shore
It’s funny. Thor’s Hammer and I are diameterically opposed, powered cookies and torque. I have no problem removing metal though.
The CRC cleaner is what I use. The Ford wipes ZC-31-B use Orthophosphoric acid to clean the surface, which is phosphoric acid. There are a lot of products, including Naval Jelly that use phosphoric acid in the product to clean metal.
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us190874us.pdf
What I do to loosen the gasket residue is place paper towels over the deck and head, wet them with the CRC product, then cover that with poly e sheeting. This prevents the solvents from evaporating and can soften the material without constantly spraying. Using the paper towels prevents the gasket remover from going into all the openings that then would be hard to clean out.
My scraper of choice is a carbide tipped Super Scraper although I have a brass scraper I didn’t use it. A brass wire wheel in a die grinder is OK to use as long as it’s soft enough, which means under 0.006” wires (McMaster https://www.mcmaster.com/#4916A31 ). FelPro also is fine with the Super Scraper and the wire wheel of that type.
When I am abrading my surfaces I use foam sheet and caulking foam in the holes to prevent materials from dropping in.
The CRC cleaner is what I use. The Ford wipes ZC-31-B use Orthophosphoric acid to clean the surface, which is phosphoric acid. There are a lot of products, including Naval Jelly that use phosphoric acid in the product to clean metal.
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us190874us.pdf
What I do to loosen the gasket residue is place paper towels over the deck and head, wet them with the CRC product, then cover that with poly e sheeting. This prevents the solvents from evaporating and can soften the material without constantly spraying. Using the paper towels prevents the gasket remover from going into all the openings that then would be hard to clean out.
My scraper of choice is a carbide tipped Super Scraper although I have a brass scraper I didn’t use it. A brass wire wheel in a die grinder is OK to use as long as it’s soft enough, which means under 0.006” wires (McMaster https://www.mcmaster.com/#4916A31 ). FelPro also is fine with the Super Scraper and the wire wheel of that type.
When I am abrading my surfaces I use foam sheet and caulking foam in the holes to prevent materials from dropping in.
Last edited by TooManyToys.; Sep 21, 2018 at 07:47 AM. Reason: Added additional details
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 765
Likes: 5
From: Long Island, NY
It’s funny. Thor’s Hammer and I are diameterically opposed, powered cookies and torque. I have no problem removing metal though.
The CRC cleaner is what I use. The Ford wipes ZC-31-B use Orthophosphoric acid to clean the surface, which is phosphoric acid. There are a lot of products, including Naval Jelly that use phosphoric acid in the product to clean metal.
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us190874us.pdf
What I do to loosen the gasket residue is place paper towels over the deck and head, wet them with the CRC product, then cover that with poly e sheeting. This prevents the solvents from evaporating and can soften the material without constantly spraying. Using the paper towels prevents the gasket remover from going into all the openings that then would be hard to clean out.
When I am abrading my surfaces I use foam sheet and caulking foam in the holes to prevent materials from dropping in.
The CRC cleaner is what I use. The Ford wipes ZC-31-B use Orthophosphoric acid to clean the surface, which is phosphoric acid. There are a lot of products, including Naval Jelly that use phosphoric acid in the product to clean metal.
https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us190874us.pdf
What I do to loosen the gasket residue is place paper towels over the deck and head, wet them with the CRC product, then cover that with poly e sheeting. This prevents the solvents from evaporating and can soften the material without constantly spraying. Using the paper towels prevents the gasket remover from going into all the openings that then would be hard to clean out.
When I am abrading my surfaces I use foam sheet and caulking foam in the holes to prevent materials from dropping in.
Thanks once again. I will be using the paper towel and plastic sheeting trick. Any chance you want to take a road trip to Long Island and turn some wrenches along side one of your bestest FTE friends? LOL If not I may just have to keep asking you for tips and tricks on a daily basis.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 17,829
Likes: 3,114
From: Jersey Shore
Edited my post above since your posting.
I’ve got a south Jersey road trip scheduled Wed and Thr (doc). But I wouldn’t consider myself a 6.0 expert.
LI requires crossing the Abyss though. BTW, where are you at.
I’ve got a south Jersey road trip scheduled Wed and Thr (doc). But I wouldn’t consider myself a 6.0 expert.
LI requires crossing the Abyss though. BTW, where are you at.