It takes more than that just to get to the mainland USA with all the dang traffic!!!!! GRRRR

 

Yeah! Used to go to Sag Harbor and Montauk when young. I took my wife there a few years back for a few days but came from our daughters by Boston and took the Orient Point ferry over to shelter Island then Montauk. And the long Sunrise highway drive back to get to NJ. Maybe about 15 years ago had to do some Metro bus brake tests out in Ronkonkoma for about a week. No matter what, its all about getting through the NYC bridges.

 

Heads removed. Cleaning to commence.

 

I am thinking this was the area of failure. 10th picture in the above post.

 

Yep, at the midway point of the width. You also show carbon introduced into the coolant areas outside of the combustion chamber.

Go back and look at 6:00 to 8:00 in my heads video I'm working on.

 

OK. I am going to need some guidance here. I used the CRC gasket cleaner on the block and all the blue gasket material is gone. Used rags and a plastic scraper. According the all I have read, that is all Ford says to do. However there has to be more. The plastic scraper and gasket cleaner will not take off the black and brown "stuff". The "stuff" is thick, I can catch my nail on it and even feel it if I run my fingers over it.

Not sure where to go from here. I do not want to do anything aggressive and ruin the block and heads. Honestly, I am a bit nervous to do anything more than a plastic scraper. Maybe I am just reading too much into the internet horror stories.

I do not have any machinist flat bars or anything like that. I have feeler gauges though. I do not have a stone or flat steel plate to "sand" the surfaces. What else can I do? I am pretty certain I can not just put it back together with the surface being so uneven that I can feel it with my fingers.

 

It depends how clean the gasket contacting areas are. The carbon and rust are in the whetted coolant regions, with the exception of the blow through. The scotchbrite pad Ford usually recommends is a 600 grit. You’re not going to. Do any harm with that and you can see in the passenger side start of my addressing the decks how clean that gets it. It was backed with something reasonably flat.

Brian, you know I don’t have problem with aggressive, as long as it’s flat. Where you are at right now, I’d get a stone, which can be as corse as 180 grit.

 

I went to HD and picked up the thickest piece of aluminum flat stock they had along with some green scotch brite pads. I cut down the aluminum to fit the pad.

This is where I am at. I am done for the day! On to the heads tomorrow unless someone sees something that needs attention? There is nothing I can feel on the block. Nothing catches on a razor blade or scraper.

 

I am still reading about cleaning heads and block surfaces.
Anyway, I keep reading that you clean the heads and block surfaces, not remove any metal at all unless you are machining them.
Some things I have read but do not know if true:
The green scrubby pads will NOT remove metal. Nor will the green cookie discs. Maybe the disks if used incorrectly. If cleaning the surfaces by hand with the green pads there is virtually no chance of damaging the surface, even if just using the pad with your fingers and no backing plate?
The green scrubby pads contain aluminum oxide particles as well as titanium??? These particles will get into the engine and do serious damage in a short time? Basically abrade the bearings? Uh Oh!
You can use sandpaper but sandpaper will remove metal and will leave more aluminum oxide in the engine?
Whatever you do keep it lubricated. WD40, acetone, gasket cleaner, whatever you have.
Stone the surfaces. This is removing metal so it goes against the above?
If you remove metal from the head and block then you must machine the pistons as well as the cylinder just got shorter? I am not sure at what tolerance this needs to be done. I could understand if you get the surfaces machine but just from stoning or hand sanding?

Everything above is a question and I am hoping for some FTE input for the expert here. It seems there is no way to win here. No matter what technique you use the engine is going to blow up in short fashion unless you pull it and 100% disassemble it and wash it out with soap and water. I am obviously not doing that.

I started with CRC gasket cleaner. Then the green pad and wd40 with my fingers after wiping the blue gasket material off with a microfiber towel. I switched to an aluminum backing plate with the green pads half way through the first side. I have used a razor blade to scrape off some stubborn black material, which I think is baked on carbon. Ii have no basis to go by on this other than what it looked like to me. The block surface is clean and smooth to the touch and sight. I have plugged all the coolant passages but missed 2 of them, 2 round ones at the back. I cleaned them out of the green fuzz as much as I could. I cleaned out the cylinders as well. I am going to blow them out around the pistons once more before assembly. I will be doing a final cleaning.

I hope my 6.0 is not going to self destruct upon start up from the dangerous green pads?

 

Brian, is this your first time into a motor this deep? And you'll go crazy will all the variations. DTR talks about what Ford says, but then deleted out what he actually did although he stated he was going to show. SRMT shows using a flat bar. I could go on ......

Any abrasive, including dust from work done outside a building can be abrasive to the motor. If the piston and cylinders were not protected you can rotate the crank so the rings push the material to the top of the bore, rotate to drop the pistons, then wipe out the debris. Do so until you feel comfortable you got everything.

The coolant passages matter depending not the size of the debris if you didn't seal those ports, but the coolant system is not a major concern.

At the lower edge of the block and the heads are the oil return passages. Not sure how everyone else does it, but I use foam to seal those. If you looked at DTR and SRMastertech videos, they do not seal those, but some do take the care. You can get long handle cotton swabs, enter them down the center of the ports and pull back out on the port sides to drag out materials. I've seen people spray oil in the ports to force and material down into the oil pan, then do an oil change before the motor gets started. If you watch DTR video on head gasket work you'll see coolant all doing out and a good change of it going into the oil pan. The oil needs to get changed before starting.

And if you want to see what FelPro says .......

 

Since I have been off the site more than on here -- this may already have been said or on your list: put it back together with the 6.4 push tubes (that may be all you can get these days...). I imagine Jack has shared some of his videos with you? If not I'm sure he'd PM them over...

 

 

diesel dan is actually Scott? Great Scott!

Actually, no one has suggested the 6.4 push rods thus far. I do recall reading about them in the past, now that you mention it.

Unfortunately I have to draw the line somewhere. I am doing head gaskets at 300 plus the ARP studs for another 400. Manifold gaskets, bolts, spacers and up pipe bolts are another 100. I have to get oil and coolant as well. A good time to change the oil and fuel filters. I am going to open the turbo and clean it. hopefully it does not need a unison ring or anything. Things just getting deeper and deeper. This is after I bought new wheels with chrome simulators as well as all new brake calipers and pads last month. A new hitch is on the way as the one it has now has an elongated hole and it is quite annoying having the trailer clunk every time you go or stop.

Jack,
This is the first time I am doing head gaskets on any motor. That is why I am questioning the prep so much. Want to make sure I do it good enough that the motor does not "blow a rod in 50 miles" as I have read on other forums about using scotch brite on the block.

 

The 6.4 pushrods are the only pushrods available from Ford. They are a little shorter and I've never seen any documentation from Nav/Ford why to use them, but the internet story is to avoid lifter roller failure. I've talked to some engine builders and like me they don't understand how an excessively long pushrod could have been used in the first place given normal situations, unless there was something really screwed up in design. The scuttlebutt is to only use them.

Brian, I was just trying to get a handle on your questions from your prospective. If you've read my prior comments about Ford's instructions, I don't really understand their back story. There are comments about no disturbing the factory surface finish, but even if you use a brass scraper or razor blade you are altering the surface finish, it burnishes down the peaks of any milling or abrasion. I can understand the worry about scratches, but a catch to me has to be defined, how deep, how wide. And for them to sell a motor with the machining that my deck block had, in the 85 to 100+ Ra, while the number they don't want to say is 20-30 Ra, is a disservice to the industry.

I need research engineering terms, flatness of so much over a specific distance (they give that), but then for me a need a surface finish spec, and way more then just Ra. That's out the window. The only thing I can think of is we had a research project with Ford due to the rotor finishes done at dealerships during re-machining. We were getting warranty back for poor stopping ability, but when we tested those returned parts they were fine. We were using new, OE rotors. Ford then required warranty pads to come back with the rotors on the vehicle. Terrible finishes were found and therefore the project.

As you look at many of the local machine shops they don't seem to have a means of testing the surface finish they develop. Which is crazy, its like asking a woodworker to build cabinets without a rule. The machine shops I've dealt with in the past are full businesses and profilometers are the least they have for measuring surface finish. In a thread on here during the past months Anthony and I got into a discussion about profilometers and surface finish. He said the 40 automotive machine shops in his area didn't use them. That's just p*ss poor. A competent shop will have one and know all the parameters to check, Ra being the least informative. Engine Builder magazine, a Babcox production, has written extensively about the tool for engine machining. Sorry for 2 paragraphs of rant, but surface finish shouldn't be this much of a mystery. If Ford has an issue with what is done in the field, then they should publicly address it rather then "can't touch that". For the person who is trying to work on his truck, it shouldn't be that hard.

I actually think you have a wide range to play with. Thor's hammer this thread has an opposite approach and says his works fine. 87crewdually has more actual experience then I do with motors and I'm sure he has good results, I'm sure different then I'm doing. I don't think theres an absolute here, it probably a range. I think there more going on here then just the prep.

You'll have to link the story about blowing a rod with a ScotchBrite pad, because I've never heard that. But the service side is not my history.

Any contaminants going down the oil return channels, abrasives, dirt, scrapings, coolant, anything, has the potential to destroy crank and rod bearings. The YourTube vids don't cover that very well.