2019 F-450 true payload
#16
09-18-2018, 10:52 PM
Reason I say this is high performance boat policies have been known to contain language that if the operator is found at fault because of boating under the influence, or was "racing", or pulling water toys the policy will not provide coverage. Enforceable? Beats me. But my boat policy has said language. I have not seen/heard of such language for other types of policies such as our trucks...but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Edit: Oh, and I have definitely heard that most car insurance policies will not provide coverage if the car is on a racing surface...even if merely participating in a tightly controlled parade lap!
#17
09-18-2018, 11:18 PM
Laughing Gas
Interesting. I had always assumed the 450 would have a higher cargo figure than my 350. My KR has 5247 on the sticker but I think I would be more comfortable with a slide in camper on a 450 with larger tires, bigger brakes and the icing on the cake, a tighter turning radius. Just don't tell the weight police or they will get their shorts in a wad.
#18
09-19-2018, 01:59 AM
Fleet Mechanic
Likely true, but there is a remote chance it MAY not be.
Reason I say this is high performance boat policies have been known to contain language that if the operator is found at fault because of boating under the influence, or was "racing", or pulling water toys the policy will not provide coverage. Enforceable? Beats me. But my boat policy has said language. I have not seen/heard of such language for other types of policies such as our trucks...but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Edit: Oh, and I have definitely heard that most car insurance policies will not provide coverage if the car is on a racing surface...even if merely participating in a tightly controlled parade lap!
Reason I say this is high performance boat policies have been known to contain language that if the operator is found at fault because of boating under the influence, or was "racing", or pulling water toys the policy will not provide coverage. Enforceable? Beats me. But my boat policy has said language. I have not seen/heard of such language for other types of policies such as our trucks...but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
Edit: Oh, and I have definitely heard that most car insurance policies will not provide coverage if the car is on a racing surface...even if merely participating in a tightly controlled parade lap!
I am ONLY talking about liability insurance. The stuff that keeps us somewhat safe from being hurt in an accident that was not our fault and the we are not SOL.
if someone runs a red light and slams into you, have you ever heard that his insurance wont pay because he ran a red light? Of corse more, that is what liability insuance is for.
Now as far as comprehensive, that is different. If you are committing fraud, or racing on a track, or other things other then driving on public roads, you might not have insurance to cover YOUR losses.
#19
09-19-2018, 04:05 AM
Fleet Mechanic
I had a 2011 F450. It really is just a F350 DRW with a wide front axle. It only had 13.5 inch brakes (in 2013 all superdutys got 14.3 inch brakes) and 17" tires as nd wheels. I have a large triple slide Eagle Cap 1200 campee. I had over 11,000lbs on the rear axle.
the truck did fine, never even a hint that it wasn't happy. But in the back of my mind I knew I was pushing the max capacity of the wheels, tires, and the DANA 80 rear axle.
I decided to go with a newer F450 that had the 19.5 tires and the larger rear axle (DANA 110 or 130 or M300)
the more I looked I decided to go with the heaverier frame on the 2017 and newer. So I now have a 2018 F450 Platnum.
I was actually surprised that wasn't as much difference between the two. The 19.5 tires wonder in the ruts so it took a while to get the tire and air bag pressures correct, I also see some say the tires will get better with some miles on them, I think that they are.
when you look at the specs. The new F450 is the most capible class 3 truck made. The rear tires and wheels, by themselves, are rated for 15000lbs, the same with the DANA 300 axle-15,000lbs. The rest of the drivetrain is used in class 6 trucks. In fact my f450 pickup is rated a 43,800 GCVWR. A F550 is only 40,000lbs.
loaded up my totals are 11,250 rear, 5400 front. I do not feel this truck is overloaded in any way.
the truck did fine, never even a hint that it wasn't happy. But in the back of my mind I knew I was pushing the max capacity of the wheels, tires, and the DANA 80 rear axle.
I decided to go with a newer F450 that had the 19.5 tires and the larger rear axle (DANA 110 or 130 or M300)
the more I looked I decided to go with the heaverier frame on the 2017 and newer. So I now have a 2018 F450 Platnum.
I was actually surprised that wasn't as much difference between the two. The 19.5 tires wonder in the ruts so it took a while to get the tire and air bag pressures correct, I also see some say the tires will get better with some miles on them, I think that they are.
when you look at the specs. The new F450 is the most capible class 3 truck made. The rear tires and wheels, by themselves, are rated for 15000lbs, the same with the DANA 300 axle-15,000lbs. The rest of the drivetrain is used in class 6 trucks. In fact my f450 pickup is rated a 43,800 GCVWR. A F550 is only 40,000lbs.
loaded up my totals are 11,250 rear, 5400 front. I do not feel this truck is overloaded in any way.
#20
09-19-2018, 07:46 AM
Laughing Gas
Wow, that's heavy. I hit my overloads with "merely" 7800# on the rear axle. For the 10k on the back, do you have air bags, or just squat another inch?
BTW, I think it's kind of humorous that you have the total capacity of an F250 on your back axle. Then again, both have 4 wheels.
BTW, I think it's kind of humorous that you have the total capacity of an F250 on your back axle. Then again, both have 4 wheels.
#21
09-19-2018, 09:21 AM
Hotshot
My 2017 350 dually Lariat Ultimate had a 5,440lb payload. The 450 is less for the aforementioned reasons.
Keep in mind the 450 and 350 dually have identical suspensions. The leafs are rated exactly the same. The 450 has a beefed up version of the 350 dually axle. It also has larger brakes and tires with much higher weight capacity. Because the suspension is the same yet it has better tires, brakes, and rear axle...it is more capable outside of the legal rating.
As far as brakes, using Tow/Haul and the diesel engine brake, brakes would not be an issue for even the heaviest of truck campers...even on a 350.
Keep in mind the 450 and 350 dually have identical suspensions. The leafs are rated exactly the same. The 450 has a beefed up version of the 350 dually axle. It also has larger brakes and tires with much higher weight capacity. Because the suspension is the same yet it has better tires, brakes, and rear axle...it is more capable outside of the legal rating.
As far as brakes, using Tow/Haul and the diesel engine brake, brakes would not be an issue for even the heaviest of truck campers...even on a 350.
#22
09-19-2018, 10:21 AM
...
Keep in mind the 450 and 350 dually have identical suspensions. The leafs are rated exactly the same. The 450 has a beefed up version of the 350 dually axle. It also has larger brakes and tires with much higher weight capacity. Because the suspension is the same yet it has better tires, brakes, and rear axle...it is more capable outside of the legal rating.
As far as brakes, using Tow/Haul and the diesel engine brake, brakes would not be an issue for even the heaviest of truck campers...even on a 350.
Keep in mind the 450 and 350 dually have identical suspensions. The leafs are rated exactly the same. The 450 has a beefed up version of the 350 dually axle. It also has larger brakes and tires with much higher weight capacity. Because the suspension is the same yet it has better tires, brakes, and rear axle...it is more capable outside of the legal rating.
As far as brakes, using Tow/Haul and the diesel engine brake, brakes would not be an issue for even the heaviest of truck campers...even on a 350.
1. Suspension. The 450 and 350 do not have identical suspensions. For example, the F450 has much larger front and rear stabilizer bars (450 front is 35mm vs 28mm and the back is 31mm vs 25mm). I think some of the other components may be larger as well. (Track bar maybe?)
2. Brakes. The much larger brakes on the 450 (almost 50% larger pad area, bigger rotors, bigger calipers, bigger master cylinder) are important in hard stopping situations. The exhaust brake is great, but the huge brakes on the 450 are helpful if you need to stop fast when running heavy. I'm not suggesting that the 350 brakes are deficient, just that the exhaust brake and tow/haul don't negate the benefits of the 450's monster brakes.
#23
09-19-2018, 10:56 AM
Hotshot
I appreciate all of the great info you provide to this forum and agree with most of your post. I do disagree about a couple of your points though.
1. Suspension. The 450 and 350 do not have identical suspensions. For example, the F450 has much larger front and rear stabilizer bars (450 front is 35mm vs 28mm and the back is 31mm vs 25mm). I think some of the other components may be larger as well. (Track bar maybe?)
2. Brakes. The much larger brakes on the 450 (almost 50% larger pad area, bigger rotors, bigger calipers, bigger master cylinder) are important in hard stopping situations. The exhaust brake is great, but the huge brakes on the 450 are helpful if you need to stop fast when running heavy. I'm not suggesting that the 350 brakes are deficient, just that the exhaust brake and tow/haul don't negate the benefits of the 450's monster brakes.
1. Suspension. The 450 and 350 do not have identical suspensions. For example, the F450 has much larger front and rear stabilizer bars (450 front is 35mm vs 28mm and the back is 31mm vs 25mm). I think some of the other components may be larger as well. (Track bar maybe?)
2. Brakes. The much larger brakes on the 450 (almost 50% larger pad area, bigger rotors, bigger calipers, bigger master cylinder) are important in hard stopping situations. The exhaust brake is great, but the huge brakes on the 450 are helpful if you need to stop fast when running heavy. I'm not suggesting that the 350 brakes are deficient, just that the exhaust brake and tow/haul don't negate the benefits of the 450's monster brakes.
All in all, the 450 is a better choice for a heavy truck camper, which is what I was trying to get at.
#24
09-19-2018, 01:25 PM
Not too long ago I had a chance to go test drive and look all through a new f450 limited at my local dealer. First I got to say it is the best pickup I have ever driven and if I wasn’t moving somewhere where it’s size is going to be a problem, I would get one without hesitation.
By my my point is saying this is that I got to look at just how big the brakes are in person for the first time. I have read that they where significantly bigger but I have never seen them in person. I got to say holy cow they are absolutely massive. I was blown away by their size. They barely fit in the 19.5 wheels and the caliper is bigger than the darn steering knuckle on the Dana Super 60. The caliper wraps a good 40% of the way around the rotor.
Sway bars are very large which I like and the wheels/tires and axle are rated up to ~15,000lbs. Keep in mind that a f450 pickup has pretty much the exact same hardware that a f550 (19,500 gvw) has with the exception of the back half of the frame being open C channel. So even if the pickups rear frame is slightly weaker than the f550’s (which it likely is just a little) I would say you should be perfectly fine up to AT LEAST 17-18,000lbs gvw or so.
By my my point is saying this is that I got to look at just how big the brakes are in person for the first time. I have read that they where significantly bigger but I have never seen them in person. I got to say holy cow they are absolutely massive. I was blown away by their size. They barely fit in the 19.5 wheels and the caliper is bigger than the darn steering knuckle on the Dana Super 60. The caliper wraps a good 40% of the way around the rotor.
Sway bars are very large which I like and the wheels/tires and axle are rated up to ~15,000lbs. Keep in mind that a f450 pickup has pretty much the exact same hardware that a f550 (19,500 gvw) has with the exception of the back half of the frame being open C channel. So even if the pickups rear frame is slightly weaker than the f550’s (which it likely is just a little) I would say you should be perfectly fine up to AT LEAST 17-18,000lbs gvw or so.
#25
09-19-2018, 02:21 PM
Not too long ago I had a chance to go test drive and look all through a new f450 limited at my local dealer. First I got to say it is the best pickup I have ever driven and if I wasn’t moving somewhere where it’s size is going to be a problem, I would get one without hesitation.
By my my point is saying this is that I got to look at just how big the brakes are in person for the first time. I have read that they where significantly bigger but I have never seen them in person. I got to say holy cow they are absolutely massive. I was blown away by their size. They barely fit in the 19.5 wheels and the caliper is bigger than the darn steering knuckle on the Dana Super 60. The caliper wraps a good 40% of the way around the rotor.
Sway bars are very large which I like and the wheels/tires and axle are rated up to ~15,000lbs. Keep in mind that a f450 pickup has pretty much the exact same hardware that a f550 (19,500 gvw) has with the exception of the back half of the frame being open C channel. So even if the pickups rear frame is slightly weaker than the f550’s (which it likely is just a little) I would say you should be perfectly fine up to AT LEAST 17-18,000lbs gvw or so.
By my my point is saying this is that I got to look at just how big the brakes are in person for the first time. I have read that they where significantly bigger but I have never seen them in person. I got to say holy cow they are absolutely massive. I was blown away by their size. They barely fit in the 19.5 wheels and the caliper is bigger than the darn steering knuckle on the Dana Super 60. The caliper wraps a good 40% of the way around the rotor.
Sway bars are very large which I like and the wheels/tires and axle are rated up to ~15,000lbs. Keep in mind that a f450 pickup has pretty much the exact same hardware that a f550 (19,500 gvw) has with the exception of the back half of the frame being open C channel. So even if the pickups rear frame is slightly weaker than the f550’s (which it likely is just a little) I would say you should be perfectly fine up to AT LEAST 17-18,000lbs gvw or so.
1. I assume you are referring to just the rear tires regarding the 15k rating. The six tires together are rated for a whopping 22,940#.
2. Both the F450 C&C and F550 C&C have WAY bigger rear leaf springs than I have on my F450 pickup truck. In my opinion, 18k# GVW for my truck would not be safe with the stock springs. Daily driving my truck, I'm glad that mine are rated at 9900#, not 15,000#! Personally, I suggest staying below the door sticker axle ratings (6000 + 9900 = 15,900#).
#27
09-19-2018, 06:52 PM
#28
09-19-2018, 07:55 PM
Not too long ago I had a chance to go test drive and look all through a new f450 limited at my local dealer. First I got to say it is the best pickup I have ever driven and if I wasn’t moving somewhere where it’s size is going to be a problem, I would get one without hesitation.
By my my point is saying this is that I got to look at just how big the brakes are in person for the first time. I have read that they where significantly bigger but I have never seen them in person. I got to say holy cow they are absolutely massive. I was blown away by their size. They barely fit in the 19.5 wheels and the caliper is bigger than the darn steering knuckle on the Dana Super 60. The caliper wraps a good 40% of the way around the rotor.
Sway bars are very large which I like and the wheels/tires and axle are rated up to ~15,000lbs. Keep in mind that a f450 pickup has pretty much the exact same hardware that a f550 (19,500 gvw) has with the exception of the back half of the frame being open C channel. So even if the pickups rear frame is slightly weaker than the f550’s (which it likely is just a little) I would say you should be perfectly fine up to AT LEAST 17-18,000lbs gvw or so.
By my my point is saying this is that I got to look at just how big the brakes are in person for the first time. I have read that they where significantly bigger but I have never seen them in person. I got to say holy cow they are absolutely massive. I was blown away by their size. They barely fit in the 19.5 wheels and the caliper is bigger than the darn steering knuckle on the Dana Super 60. The caliper wraps a good 40% of the way around the rotor.
Sway bars are very large which I like and the wheels/tires and axle are rated up to ~15,000lbs. Keep in mind that a f450 pickup has pretty much the exact same hardware that a f550 (19,500 gvw) has with the exception of the back half of the frame being open C channel. So even if the pickups rear frame is slightly weaker than the f550’s (which it likely is just a little) I would say you should be perfectly fine up to AT LEAST 17-18,000lbs gvw or so.
I would argue that the 450 is even MORE capable than a 550.
#29
09-19-2018, 09:18 PM
Laughing Gas
#30
09-19-2018, 09:55 PM
Suggestions here that you can load a F450 pickup up as much (or more) than a C&C F450, or even the F550, are unsafe.