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351 WINDSOR "Stock Performance" Build.

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Old 09-17-2018, 10:39 PM
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351 WINDSOR "Stock Performance" Build.

OK I've got a 93 F150, it's got a 302 in it now (that's a 5.0L to metric folks) and I'm wanting to get a 351w from a junkyard, make some stock performance mods (I know "stock" and "performance" in the same sentence kinda an oxymoron) what I mean is new cam, new heads, new intake manifold, ect.
But I'd like to keep the parts to things I can source at the junkyard. The biggest money items I'm willing to splurge on are the engine itself, the exhaust system (headers, cherry bombs) and the illusive 351w GT40 lightning manifold.
The heads are going to be GT40 (unless a similarly cheap option that is better is available)
The cam, well I've seen about three or so stock cams that were on Windsors (please correct me if I'm wrong) there's the HO cam, the Explorer/Truck cam and the RV cam. Now I want a balance of torque and high end power, I want torque enough to spin the tires but enough top end to, well, top out the speedometer and have more to go. I don't tow anything right now so that's not too much of a concern, I will be towing a U haul trailer when I move out and into an apartment for college, and I'm hoping to get a crawfish skiff to join the UCN (United Cajun Navy for the uninitiated) so I'll need a little towing capacity but not much really.
So from a performance stand point am I barking up the wrong trees or can I get reasonable power out of the engine with that setup, it's going to be a daily driver so I need to keep cost down and the performance streetable. Thanks in advance!
 
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:25 PM
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The best factory cam for a broad powerband in a 5.8 is the HO with 1.7 rockers, with a GT40 intake and heads it should make around 300hp.
 
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:08 AM
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OK I talked to the guys at Ford Performance, they said the same but far as a cam they said to stay stock or go HO but the HO may or may not play well with the Speed density system, which they said could be retained for the 351w, due to the E4od transmission my best option would be a Lightning Computer, problem is a kit I found on eBay is 1500 bucks. Back to the cam, they said I could try the HO cam but it's no guarantee that it'll work.
has anyone put an HO cam into a 351w with speed density, how'd it work?
 
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:14 AM
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No, heads, cam, and intake together is not going to work very well with a factory 5.8 SD EFI tune and it will stretch the limits of a stock MAF tune too. It may run acceptably well on a 7.5L SD PCM with 24lb injectors, by "acceptable" I mean it should drive reasonably well and make good power but it's not likely it would pass a sniffer test.
P.S. What is it about the Lightning computer that cost $1500? Or is that a MAF conversion kit for a Lightning?
 
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:24 AM
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So you're saying Ford is full of it?
The guy said as long as I maintain vacuum on the computer it'll run the engine just fine.
Also if I swapped to MAF which is still on the table because we'll I kinda want the sequential injection and timing of the MAF system, if I get a lightning computer I'm basically building a lightning engine here so that should be a one for one deal.
 
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 1994FordF-350MegaCab View Post
So you're saying Ford is full of it? The guy said as long as I maintain vacuum on the computer it'll run the engine just fine.
No it won't run "just fine", the factory tune is based on feeding a 200hp motor and the SD system has no way of measuring how much air an engine is moving so it assumes the motor is stock, there is some adjustment range built in that gets dialed in with feedback from the O2 but that it is relatively small... maybe 15% or so to accomadate an aftermarket exhaust for example, But all those parts together are going to add about 50% more HP so that is just not gonna fly. If an OEM SD computer could adapt to that much of a change then why did Ford produce different PCMs for 5.0 and 5.8 engines, these two motors produced nearly the same HP though the EFI years, even used the same heads and cam for most of those years but for some reason Ford still felt the need for different PCM calibrations.

The HO cam technically is SD friendly as well, the '88 Mustang was SD and the motor was unchanged in '89 when the car got MAF. This cam is bigger than the stock Lightning cam too just in case you are wondering.


Originally Posted by 1994FordF-350MegaCab View Post
Also if I swapped to MAF which is still on the table because we'll I kinda want the sequential injection and timing of the MAF system, if I get a lightning computer I'm basically building a lightning engine here so that should be a one for one deal.
The Lightning wasn't MAF though it was SD so you would have to get a MAF conversion for a Lightning which will include a regular MAF truck PCM that includes E4OD control, then it would run reasonably well but there is a good chance you will need a tuner as well because 300hp is more than 19lb injectors can reliably supply and adding larger injectors requires tuning.

P.S. The Lightning PCM is one of the few SD computers that is compatable with common aftermarket tuning systems so it is possible you could use it without a MAF conversion.
 
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:23 PM
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OK I went hunting and found a kit to convert a 351w E4od to mass air, it's 800 bucks, which I'd spend to have the freedom, that way I can go nuts and just have to get it tuned.
I talked to Ford again and they said that it'll work.
 
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:12 PM
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The HO cam is hotter than the lightning cam, that's good, will I still have tire burning torque with it? What I mean is I don't need a ton of torque I'm not going to tow much, as I said a 20ft Crawfish Skiff and a 12ft U haul trailer. I really want torque for doing burnouts on occasion. Perhaps a HO cam and different RE would be good, I'll have to check what RE my truck runs right now.
The HO will probably be the easiest to source, a custom cam is an option but the MAF computer is going to set me back more than I wanted so I have to cut back on expectations a little.
The exhaust end is going to be S shaped long tube headers, HiFlo Cats, Cherry Bomb M80s feeding CB Extremes 1-2 and dual twin side pipes (two out each side) Each bank is going to have its own separate pipes and mufflers.
 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 1994FordF-350MegaCab View Post
The HO cam is hotter than the lightning cam, that's good, will I still have tire burning torque with it? What I mean is I don't need a ton of torque I'm not going to tow much, as I said a 20ft Crawfish Skiff and a 12ft U haul trailer. I really want torque for doing burnouts on occasion. Perhaps a HO cam and different RE would be good, I'll have to check what RE my truck runs right now.
The HO will probably be the easiest to source, a custom cam is an option but the MAF computer is going to set me back more than I wanted so I have to cut back on expectations a little.
The exhaust end is going to be S shaped long tube headers, HiFlo Cats, Cherry Bomb M80s feeding CB Extremes 1-2 and dual twin side pipes (two out each side) Each bank is going to have its own separate pipes and mufflers.
With your parameters, you're never going to have tire burning torque with an E4OD behind a slightly warmed up 351W. I did a GT40 head swap to the 351W in my 96 E150 van (GT40 heads, Cobra 1.7 rockers, shorty headers and full 3" exhaust) and even after swapping the rear gear to 4.10's, it still won't burn rubber on dry pavement. Nor will you have high rpm HP to spare. You're expecting too much here with the combination you're limited to.
 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:42 AM
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What would affordably get that sort of performance, I'm just learning all this so please share.
 
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:49 AM
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Put a 460 in it. Or a manual transmission. The E4OD just eats up too much power to burn rubber.
 
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 1994FordF-350MegaCab View Post
Perhaps a HO cam and different RE would be good, I'll have to check what RE my truck runs right now.
RE what is that?

Originally Posted by 1994FordF-350MegaCab View Post
The exhaust end is going to be S shaped long tube headers, HiFlo Cats, Cherry Bomb M80s feeding CB Extremes 1-2 and dual twin side pipes (two out each side) Each bank is going to have its own separate pipes and mufflers.
It will need a crossover near the engine. What size tubing were you thinking?

 
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:19 PM
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Can a E4od be rebuilt to eat less power? Also what about stroking the Windsor? I would need an aftermarket block instead?
 
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:21 PM
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RE-Rear End, and I would need a crossover? I was planning to have it separate pipes all the way back. I know the O2 sensor will need relocation, I've heard that MAF uses two? Not sure how true that is.
 
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:04 PM
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I think I might go to a 408 stroker, more cubes more power, fully port the heads and intake and roll with it, how much would stroking a 351w cost?
 

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