Getting E4OD right
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Getting E4OD right
Im back with probably another bonehead question.
I finally got my '92 on the road. I think I am solving the previous owners problems in reverse order.
The PSOM went out and was causing it's problems. Fixed that and it shifted well....for a while.
Once it is warmed up, the converter starts to shudder and it locks up when I come to a stop. Or shift it into gear after restarting unless I pretty much neutral drop it to get rolling. After this starts, shifts become delayed and very sharp. It also seems to drop out of OD and go back into OD quickly.
I drained my fluid and confirmed the filter hadn't fallen. I then used a torque wrench and confirmed all valve body fasteners were tightened to 100 in-lb. hoping a couple were loose and causing internal bleeding. Everything was tight but the problem remains.
It seems I have a fluid pressure issue that is locking the converter.
I'm wondering though, how can I diagnose what is causing it. Is there a way to pinpoint if the lack of pressure is caused by a failing pump vs the valve body?
The computer is not storing any codes so It's not being much help.
Thanks for any help everyone!!
I finally got my '92 on the road. I think I am solving the previous owners problems in reverse order.
The PSOM went out and was causing it's problems. Fixed that and it shifted well....for a while.
Once it is warmed up, the converter starts to shudder and it locks up when I come to a stop. Or shift it into gear after restarting unless I pretty much neutral drop it to get rolling. After this starts, shifts become delayed and very sharp. It also seems to drop out of OD and go back into OD quickly.
I drained my fluid and confirmed the filter hadn't fallen. I then used a torque wrench and confirmed all valve body fasteners were tightened to 100 in-lb. hoping a couple were loose and causing internal bleeding. Everything was tight but the problem remains.
It seems I have a fluid pressure issue that is locking the converter.
I'm wondering though, how can I diagnose what is causing it. Is there a way to pinpoint if the lack of pressure is caused by a failing pump vs the valve body?
The computer is not storing any codes so It's not being much help.
Thanks for any help everyone!!
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 735
Likes: 8
From: NC
First thing I did when I bought my '93 and started working on it was get a code reader. Also the 6 foot cord that you can also get makes it much easier. Total of about 40 dollars on amazon. Comes with a very detaled book explaining all the tests,codes,etc. IMO this is a MUST HAVE for these older trucks as it greatly simplifies trouble shooting.
*
Are you trying to get codes by making the CEL to flash? Mine wouldn't do that as the PCM was bad so the jumpering method wouldn't make the CEL flash. When I got the code reader it told me the KAM was bad (Keep Alive Memory) which equalled needing a new PCM. Once that was installed all my issues with the transmission cleared up (hard shifts,a slight shudder,slight surging) and the engine went back to running right.
*
Are you trying to get codes by making the CEL to flash? Mine wouldn't do that as the PCM was bad so the jumpering method wouldn't make the CEL flash. When I got the code reader it told me the KAM was bad (Keep Alive Memory) which equalled needing a new PCM. Once that was installed all my issues with the transmission cleared up (hard shifts,a slight shudder,slight surging) and the engine went back to running right.
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 48
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First thing I did when I bought my '93 and started working on it was get a code reader. Also the 6 foot cord that you can also get makes it much easier. Total of about 40 dollars on amazon. Comes with a very detaled book explaining all the tests,codes,etc. IMO this is a MUST HAVE for these older trucks as it greatly simplifies trouble shooting.
*INNOVA 3145 Ford Digital OBD1 Code Reader
INNOVA 3149 Extension Cable for Ford Code Reader
Are you trying to get codes by making the CEL to flash? Mine wouldn't do that as the PCM was bad so the jumpering method wouldn't make the CEL flash. When I got the code reader it told me the KAM was bad (Keep Alive Memory) which equalled needing a new PCM. Once that was installed all my issues with the transmission cleared up (hard shifts,a slight shudder,slight surging) and the engine went back to running right.
*INNOVA 3145 Ford Digital OBD1 Code Reader
INNOVA 3149 Extension Cable for Ford Code Reader
Are you trying to get codes by making the CEL to flash? Mine wouldn't do that as the PCM was bad so the jumpering method wouldn't make the CEL flash. When I got the code reader it told me the KAM was bad (Keep Alive Memory) which equalled needing a new PCM. Once that was installed all my issues with the transmission cleared up (hard shifts,a slight shudder,slight surging) and the engine went back to running right.
this is definitely isn’t a “slight” anything. Once it warms up, the trans straight throws a fit.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 735
Likes: 8
From: NC
Hopefully some of the more experienced guys can help you figure it out. Some pretty sharp fella's here. I have been reading til my eyes hurt through the forums trying to learn as much as i can,if and when i start having issues.
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
Low fluid can cause this. So can a loose internal filter.
Put a 0=350 PSI gauge in the test port on the driver's side of the trans. Check pressures at idle in PRND21 if possible without stalling. Also, check pressures at stall in R, D, 2, and 1. CAUTION: DO NOT HOLD STALL FOR MORE THAN 5 (FIVE) SECONDS AT A TIME. FAST IDLE IN NEUTRAL FOR AT LEAST 30 SECONDS AFTER EACH 5 SECOND STALL TEST.
Put a 0=350 PSI gauge in the test port on the driver's side of the trans. Check pressures at idle in PRND21 if possible without stalling. Also, check pressures at stall in R, D, 2, and 1. CAUTION: DO NOT HOLD STALL FOR MORE THAN 5 (FIVE) SECONDS AT A TIME. FAST IDLE IN NEUTRAL FOR AT LEAST 30 SECONDS AFTER EACH 5 SECOND STALL TEST.
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Am I missing something??? I really don't know. I feel like a bad VSS would show itself in other ways. Are there parameters of the vss signal that the computer will use for the trans that the speedo/odo doesn't??
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Thread Starter
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Freshman User
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Low fluid can cause this. So can a loose internal filter.
Put a 0=350 PSI gauge in the test port on the driver's side of the trans. Check pressures at idle in PRND21 if possible without stalling. Also, check pressures at stall in R, D, 2, and 1. CAUTION: DO NOT HOLD STALL FOR MORE THAN 5 (FIVE) SECONDS AT A TIME. FAST IDLE IN NEUTRAL FOR AT LEAST 30 SECONDS AFTER EACH 5 SECOND STALL TEST.
Put a 0=350 PSI gauge in the test port on the driver's side of the trans. Check pressures at idle in PRND21 if possible without stalling. Also, check pressures at stall in R, D, 2, and 1. CAUTION: DO NOT HOLD STALL FOR MORE THAN 5 (FIVE) SECONDS AT A TIME. FAST IDLE IN NEUTRAL FOR AT LEAST 30 SECONDS AFTER EACH 5 SECOND STALL TEST.
thanks for your reply. You must have posted while I was typing my last response.
i checked that my filter was still tight and confirmed fluid is at the correct level.
See if I understand your directions clearly. I should be doing two separate pressure readings? One when I first start the vehicle and everything is running as it should, and then a second test after it starts acting up?
I honestly don’t think I could get it to idle for a full 5 seconds without the engine stalling.
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
No, that's not right.
Check idle pressures. You don't need to hold that for five seconds, that's a separate test. A stall test is when you put the trans in gear, with your left foot holding the brake pedal as hard as you can, and the accelerator on the floor. That's the test you can't hold for more than five seconds or you'll destroy the transmission.
Check idle pressures. You don't need to hold that for five seconds, that's a separate test. A stall test is when you put the trans in gear, with your left foot holding the brake pedal as hard as you can, and the accelerator on the floor. That's the test you can't hold for more than five seconds or you'll destroy the transmission.
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No, that's not right.
Check idle pressures. You don't need to hold that for five seconds, that's a separate test. A stall test is when you put the trans in gear, with your left foot holding the brake pedal as hard as you can, and the accelerator on the floor. That's the test you can't hold for more than five seconds or you'll destroy the transmission.
Check idle pressures. You don't need to hold that for five seconds, that's a separate test. A stall test is when you put the trans in gear, with your left foot holding the brake pedal as hard as you can, and the accelerator on the floor. That's the test you can't hold for more than five seconds or you'll destroy the transmission.
i think I see where this is going.
If my pressures are within spec during the stall test, we can assume my pump is providing the pressure it’s designed to.
If not, we have found the problem.
if the pump passes the stall test, will I be able to determine if the TCC solenoid is faulty vs the actual clutch?
If the computer is signaling the solenoid to open and it fails to do so, will it throw a code? I’m not sure how it would know if the valve opened or not.
I guess replacing the solenoid pack is a less time consuming option than replacing the converter.
I would assume that if the electrical portion of the solenoid isn’t completing the signal, the computer would notice the circuit didn’t close and would throw a code, correct?
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Well I have some info.
I purchased a cheapo pressure test kit not realizing it maxes out at 140psi.
I connect it up anyway and start the engine. Cold reading we’re within spec.
Park - 63psi
Reverse - 90psi. Then jumped and fluctuated between 95-101psi.
Neutral - 63 psi
Drive - 55
2 - 55
1 - 85
I wanted to get the trans up to temp and do the stall test so I went for a short drive. 1 shift cycle into it (started in drive and shifted trough to 3rd then back to stop)
second shift cycle my needle pegged to 140psi clearly over that and the trans started shifting very hard.
So im convinced there is something stuck in the valve body
any suggestions?
I purchased a cheapo pressure test kit not realizing it maxes out at 140psi.
I connect it up anyway and start the engine. Cold reading we’re within spec.
Park - 63psi
Reverse - 90psi. Then jumped and fluctuated between 95-101psi.
Neutral - 63 psi
Drive - 55
2 - 55
1 - 85
I wanted to get the trans up to temp and do the stall test so I went for a short drive. 1 shift cycle into it (started in drive and shifted trough to 3rd then back to stop)
second shift cycle my needle pegged to 140psi clearly over that and the trans started shifting very hard.
So im convinced there is something stuck in the valve body
any suggestions?
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Update.
I got the solenoid pack out and started testing it with my meter.
Vehicle power pin to all other solenoid pins read 20.3-20.7ohms
Vehicle power to EPC solenoid read 0.
I then tested the solenoid contacts through the solenoid under the cover and had similar results. This time, though, the EPC solenoid read 4.6ohm from in to out.
So it seems there is a break or short somewhere between the solenoid and the connector pins.
Am I reading this all correct?
I got the solenoid pack out and started testing it with my meter.
Vehicle power pin to all other solenoid pins read 20.3-20.7ohms
Vehicle power to EPC solenoid read 0.
I then tested the solenoid contacts through the solenoid under the cover and had similar results. This time, though, the EPC solenoid read 4.6ohm from in to out.
So it seems there is a break or short somewhere between the solenoid and the connector pins.
Am I reading this all correct?
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Hilux, it is my understanding that the reason for the different connectors is so that you can't swap the solenoid packs easy, IIRC in the earlier setups the circuit protections are built into the solenoid pack, and the newer style the protections are in the ECM - if you put in a new-style pack with an old-style ECM you will have no circuit protections and you may fry something. I do believe tho the opening in the trans case is the same, in which case you should be able to just put in your new solenoid pack in the older-style trans, but there may be some check ***** above the separator plate that should not be there for the new-style pack to work... I'm thinking we need to get Mark Kowalsky to shed some light on this sunject.
Found this on another thread.
I checked my part number and sure enough!
The previous owner said his son had "done something with the valve body"
He put a new style solenoid pack in an older body style.
My electrical tests confirm that he did fry something inside this new solenoid pack. I guess I will have the parts store order one and test the new one with my meter to make sure there is a difference.
I can see how this guy got fed up with the truck and decided to offload it cheap.
Looks like he had a blown front seal, then this solenoid pack and the PSOM go out. If I were in his situation, I would probably offload it cheap too....oh wait, I AM!!! hahaha
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 2,658
From: SE Florida
I'm convinced that this means the PCM detected an error and has stored a code. This results in the PCM going to failure mode, where the pressures are set high to prevent further damage.
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