Autolite 2100 Drowning Engine!

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Old 09-06-2018, 12:54 PM
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Autolite 2100 Drowning Engine!

So the engine is a 1966 289 completely rebuilt (as in all of it). The heads are ported and there is a crane cam similar to the HiPo in it. The engine starts right up, but wont rev up, and it appears that there is fuel misting out the top when the air cleaner is off. I switched out the stock power valve to a 6.5 that I had sitting around, and it now only starts under WOT. This seems to confirm that it is getting way to much fuel, which is also evident from the gas soaked rag that wiped the fuel from under the hood of my F100.

Anyhow, my thoughts are:
1. make sure the orange check valve is trimmed back in the bowl.
2. I'll switch back to the stock power valve at least until I'm running steady and can check vacuum.
3. Check that the float is at the right level.
4. Confirm that the needle is properly seating.

Anything else that anyone can recommend would be a great help to me.

Thanks!
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 10:18 AM
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Just me, but you might do better replacing that 50 year old carb with a new Holley 2 bbl. Old carbs are trouble.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:14 AM
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If anything I'll move on to a 4 bbl.

Update... so I did all these:
1. make sure the orange check valve is trimmed back in the bowl.
2. I'll switch back to the stock power valve at least until I'm running steady and can check vacuum.
3. Check that the float is at the right level.
4. Confirm that the needle is properly seating.

The result was no change. My thought now is that perhaps I'm just not getting enough air from the 2bbl carb, or that I should switch out the Jets for smaller ones. My altitude is between 5k to 6k ft. on any given day, with occasional trips up to about 10-12k ft.

Here are my basic engine specs:
289 bored .03 over with flat top pistons
Approximately 10:1 CR
Autolite 2100 2bbl Carb
Crane cam similar to HiPo
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:29 AM
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At that altitude, I'm not sure on what PV you need to move to, the 8.5 could have been better. The air flow would be there, but the oxygen content will be lower than at lower elevations. But from your description, sounds like the float is sticking or too high, that's the drawback to those carbs. You can't adjust that with the engine running, it's messy with a Holly but more easily done without taking the carb apart.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 12:19 PM
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2100 series is an excellent carburetor design. The throttle shaft bores are prone to wearing in the castings after high mileage. Cause vacuum leaks. Check for this. Other than that... Arguably the best carburetor ever made, excellent fuel atomization with their annular discharge clusters. Not quite EFI though close. They are easy to work with.

First thing to check when setting up any carburetor is the fuel pump. Recent manufacture fuel pumps esp. imports, are notorious for being waaaay out spec for psi, on the high side and/or erratic. This is a critical setting to check because everything else that follows carburetion wise is based on the correct fuel pressure being maintained at all times under all conditions. Something like 3 to 5 psi. Don't guess, have to measure.

The dry float height spec listed in the instruction sheet or manual is a bench setting, just to get in the ballpark. The fuel height in the bowl is what counts and needs to be checked. Adjust the wet float height up or down after installation as required to achieve the correct fuel height in the bowl. Different carbs in different applications vary in the manual but 29/32" fuel height should work. As it happens this is the same diameter or near enough as a US $.25 coin or quarter, which makes for a handy gauge. Measure from the machined surface of the carb down to the surface of the fuel.

Look in the manual for the PV (economiser) for your altitude. It may be a 5.5" instead of a 6.5" or 7.5". That's going to be the listing for a stock engine, and is just a starting point.

Keep in mind if you have a performance camshaft the manifold vacuum will run much lower on average than a stock setup. So the correct PV for your engine may be lower yet. The situation to be avoided is where the power valve remains open constantly or opens too early. The only time the PV or power enrichment circuit comes into play is under heavy load on acceleration. If it is sized too close to the average manifold vacuum it will be open when it should not. Say, a slight headwind on the highway. Then you can watch the fuel gauge needle go down in real time.

This mismatch also makes correct cruise jetting impossible, and of course fuel economy falls off a cliff. Oil dilution and plug fouling etc. This is another situation where a mechanic's vacuum gauge is useful so the mechanic can see where his particular engine operates at steady highway cruise and acceleration, deceleration, and slight grades, elevation, camshaft etc. Then a power valve size can be selected that will work. Yes all this testing can be a pain in the *** to setup but do it once, do it right, you'll be glad you did. The alternative is to pay somebody else to do what they think will work. Good luck with that!
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:17 PM
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Your first step would be to buy a combination fuel pressure/vacuum gauge. Verify correct pressure and check engine vacuum.

The settings on the carb are to the manufacturer's specs unless the engine has been modified or is used on a different engine calibration. Is there an ASSY TAG attached or do you see any stamping I.D. nos on the carb body?

You would use this info to find the correct settings/parts for the carb. Once you get it to run decently, then you start modifying (if needed).

You can adjust the fuel level with the engine running on a 2100/2150/4100.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedster9



Look in the manual for the PV (economiser) for your altitude. It may be a 5.5" instead of a 6.5" or 7.5". That's going to be the listing for a stock engine, and is just a starting point.
What manual ?
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You can adjust the fuel level with the engine running on a 2100/2150/4100.
Not something I would want to try, having the whole top of the carb off while the engine's running and the distributor's sparking. And while leaning over the engine while that's happening
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by baddad457
Not something I would want to try, having the whole top of the carb off while the engine's running and the distributor's sparking. And while leaning over the engine while that's happening
I read a forum posting somewhere, this one guy somehow got it in his head that float height adjustment had to be done on the 2100 with the engine running. His adventure was at night with a flashlight on the side of the road. Yeesh.

it goes without saying any kind of carburetor or fuel system work/maintenance should always be done with a full size fire extinguisher ready and available. I also carry a medium size extinguisher mounted in the truck. There's enough "tales of woe" here at this site and elsewhere, and some really sad YT videos, to make me a believer.

If one is VERY careful, it is possible to observe the engine idle with the air horn removed. It isn't really necessary though, the procedure spelled out is to let the motor idle for a few minutes on level ground. Engine fully warmed up. Shut it off then remove the top. Check the fuel height level in the bowl and adjust float, if required. Careful not to jam the viton needle tip into the seat when bending the tab. The fuel height in the bowl is also a critical adjustment, because it sets the baseline for how much fuel is drawn through the idle air and high speed bleed orifices &c. If it's too low it will be starved for fuel at high speed, and too high it may flood or run rich. Then the out of spec condition will lead to the tuner to add in compensation errors in jetting and elsewhere.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:07 PM
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Now that's some information! I'll have a look at all this stuff this evening... although I'm going to start by checking the timing again. I'll let you all know how it went by Monday.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by baddad457

Not something I would want to try, having the whole top of the carb off while the engine's running and the distributor's sparking. And while leaning over the engine while that's happening
One poster said it cannot be done, but was at one time the only way to cure some drive-ability problem(s). Also to be done in a well equipped shop and not in the driveway. The repeated removal of the air-horn cuts into book time and the level may change wile removing the top cover.

If you are worrying about spark, you need to service the secondary IGN SYSTEM.

Just sayin" ...

 
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:55 PM
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Adjusting an open 2100 with engine running. Fire extinguisher, and full body, full face fire suit.

You can service that distributor all you want. It will still create enough spark to set off gas fumes, IF they get inside the distributor.

IMO set it per spec and take the time to make small adjustments, if needed, with the engine off. It will take just a fraction of the time you will spend in the event of a fire, if you survive.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod
IMO set it per spec and take the time to make small adjustments, if needed, with the engine off. It will take just a fraction of the time you will spend in the event of a fire, if you survive.
I wouldn't be worried so much about the distributor, esp. with the fan running, it would mitigate the fumes.

What would be far more likely though from a safety standpoint is the fuel pump w/ high pressure blasting a spray far and wide past the inlet needle and seat onto the hot exhaust manifold.

I tried it once just to see the fuel level at idle, and I found the fuel pretty much dribbles past the needle seat with pretty good pressure, (thankfully into the bowl, not across the engine bay) almost constantly.

I had thought it probably worked similar to a toilet tank and float, and would take maybe 30 seconds or more, before the needle & seat allowed more fuel in. Doesn't work that way. Had to drop the float quite a ways to get the fuel level in spec. Probably the fuel pump I'm using is a little on the high side pressure wise. Need to take my own advice and check that. Somebody on one of the auto forums said they picked up an extra mpg or so just by reducing the fuel pressure at the carburetor to dead nuts on spec.
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KULTULZ
One poster said it cannot be done, but was at one time the only way to cure some drive-ability problem(s). Also to be done in a well equipped shop and not in the driveway. The repeated removal of the air-horn cuts into book time and the level may change wile removing the top cover.

If you are worrying about spark, you need to service the secondary IGN SYSTEM.

Just sayin" ...
Your funeral not mine. Just sayin...…………………...I've seen a Duraspark throw a 3 ft long arc. Just sayin...………………...
 
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Old 09-07-2018, 10:13 PM
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Question

Originally Posted by baddad457

Your funeral not mine. Just sayin...…………………...I've seen a Duraspark throw a 3 ft long arc. Just sayin...………………...
Listen, you asked for advice, I gave my opinion.

I am sorry I rattled your cage.

 


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