Not disclosing a trade isn't being a dick, its being smart because if you tell them there is one from that start then it's you will never know what the true out the door price was. Dealers are a business, in business to make money not giveing deals. All you have to say is "if i do decided to trade in vehicle x, how much will you give me for it" after you have an out the door price. That's not being dishonest, shady or slimy, its protecting YOUR best interest. They will give you an offer and you can decline or accept it, but make sure they are not trying to inflate your purchase price when doing so.

Don't know where you guys are finding these "honest and kind dealers" because in SE MI it's like being thrown into a cage of lions covered in fresh beef. Everyone wants a credit app and copy of your license as soon as you walk in the door and demand to know what you are willing to pay monthly. Next thing you know people have a car they paid over sticker with every addon under the sun shoved down their throat on a 10 year loan, but hey it's only $xxx a month.

 

I e-mailed with both: $10k off and $24k for my trade-in. Why does not disclosing the trade-in matter so much? It didn't make a difference.

We never discussed how much I'm paying a month, I just wanted the total amount.

 

You can choose not to disclose a trade until the end, but as a former car salesman I can tell you with 100% certainty that such a strategy provides no benefit whatsoever in negotiating a deal or getting you a better price. In most cases will actually cause the buying process to be lengthened.... often times considerably longer.

Yes a dealer will ask for you to complete a credit app. How else can they determine if you qualify for a loan? Every business requires a credit check in order to lend money from a bank or financial institution. You authorize a run of your credit report when you buy a house, when you get a credit card, when you apply for any sort of financing whatsoever, so why is financing a vehicle any different?

Why do they need a copy of your driver's license? Well, they need to establish an ID (it's actually federal law that ID is established when buying a vehicle), so at some point they will need your driver's license anyway. Plus if you want to test drive a vehicle (which a dealer always wants people to test drive), you have to have a valid driver's license for that too.

Why does a dealer want to know what you are willing to pay monthly? Because they need to know what vehicles to show you on their lot. A smart, competent, and honest sales consultant will show you a vehicle that is well within your budget, not at the edge of what you can afford or more than you can afford.

These are basic things that a dealer needs in order to just conduct business.

 

I would suggest you tour some more dealer LOL, everything you say is great in theory, and if people were honest. I have 5 friends in new and used sales and one is a finance manager for the dealer i bought my truck from. They have all been through multiple dealers because of the shady crap they are made to pull to get a sale. 100% the reason i refused to join them, im not lying to someone's face to make a buck. I have experienced the same crap at every dealer i have have been to used or new accross all the brands.

If you disclose the trade 8 out of 10 times the purchase price WILL be inflated to make the trade look better than it really is, that's how dealers make money. You don't know any different because they just come out and give you the "wow the used car/wholesale manager is nuts, he's giving you above black book or above blah blah blah" while your purchase price just increased $5k and you are getting low balled on the trade in the end but you don't know the wiser because you never saw what they were offering to begin with. Much easier to get an out the door price before, it's not a hard process, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to give someone a price. If it does your blowing somke up somones **** with the "my manager is doing everything he can" skit. Now you have a baseline of what they are willing to sell the truck for. Of course they are not going to give you what your trade is worth, they do need to make a cut and selling a vehicle private party is a giant pain in the *** so sometimes its worth to lose a grand or two and let the dealer have it. But at least you know what you are buying the truck for and what your trade value really is before the smoke a mirrors.

If I walk in and state im looking, there is zero need for a credit app, they DO NOT need a credit app to show me trucks on the lot. Especially when i make it extremely obvious i will not finance through them and im pre-approved. Not a single sales person i talked to would say they were trying to pre-auth an amount and where going to go blasting my credit history with hard inquiries. Why still demand a credit app when i am pre-approved? They sure do get pissy when you call them out on it, but why lie to my face about something so stupid?

Same goes for the drivers license, you DO NOT need it until im getting ready to test drive or sign a purchase agreement. But they do need it to go blast my credit app to every lender under the sun, how convenient.

 

Dealers aren't stupid. They do this tens of times a day. They already KNOW that you're going to be trading in what you just drove up in. It would be rare for someone not to! Again, why begin the relationship on a lie?! Yes, RELATIONSHIP! You want to build a rapport with the dealer so when ever you go back, they'll welcome you and be much more inclined to work with you if you are a genuinely nice, pleasant and HONEST person! There are so many people that believe saving the most % off MSRP is some sort of a competition! It is NOT! It is making a deal that YOU are comfortable with! There are many limiting factors on what you will be able to save vs the next guy! Let's not forget about the fact that people ain't always smart, either...The guy in Texas brags about saving 14.5% on his loaded Platinum, and then Yahoo #29,752 tries to go to into a dealer in New York and flesh out the same deal for a base XLT with a couple of options...*SMH*

 

People, in general are clueless to buying a vehicle, this is what they pray on. You think the dealer won't lie to you to make a buck? if you honestly believe that i have a bridge for sale. I never said once i was looking for the best deal, i just wanted to be treated like a freakin human and not just a sales opportunity. I could have did better on my truck, even with my buddy writing it up elsewhere or by waiting but i was sick of the sales treatment and the "Nobody walks" tactics and daily phone calls. Hell suburban place ford still calls me a year and a half later, guess they are just worried about our "relationship" huh.

Iver never once traded a vehicle in on a new or used purchase, the offers were extremely low which is normal but i wasn't rude i just said "No thanks, i'll keep it for now". How did the dealers respond? something similar from both that offered "oh, what you think YOU can get more private party, i went out of my way to even get you that offer" Way to build that relationship, or is that just a one way street for the dealer? I actually make it a point to bring my beater with me that's worth maybe $500 for that reason, it's like i don't even exist on the lot, it's amazing.

I'm not rude even when being pushed, if they continue to push the give me all your data or pushing me towards truck i wasn't looking for i just walked out and try the lot down the street. If more people would do that and not just give in maybe things would change around here. Our local dealer mentality is that they are going out their way to even show you a truck, and because they got their dead *** out of a chair for 5 minutes you are now owe it to them but buy it.

Let's not even talk about the fact that 95% of dealer adds are nothing more than generic info other than maybe the pictures, starting the transaction off with honesty???

 

That's why you negotiate the price of your trade-in before even bothering to come down to the dealer.

I was up front with everything.. the $ off the MSRP and my trade-in value. The one I wanted had exactly everything I wanted.

I went to the dealer's website and found the same F-150 from the Ford.com website using the VIN and a lot of dealers have a button to inquire about certain vehicles in their inventory.

I simply asked, the others are getting $10k off, think you can match that? Have 2012 F-150 XLT Supercrew 4x4 in great shape, other dealers offered me $24k for it. Think you can do that?

No B.S., but dealer tried to steer me to another F-150 on the lot, I didn't budge. Then we haggled back and forth a bit, four hours later, we agreed in e-mail and I was on my way.

I'd do it that way again. Saves me the time.

 

Tour some more dealers? I used to work as a car salesman. So yes I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Your example of a purchase price being inflated because of a trade does not make sense and is not a real world example. What is real world is dealers will attempt to negotiate the difference between the new vehicle and the trade. Adding a trade does not automatically inflate price. Dealers will do what they always do, attempt to sell at the highest price they can and buy at the lowest price they can. It's what anyone else does. It's not criminal, unethical, or lying. It's business.

Sure if you want to walk in and just say you're looking, then you don't need a credit app. Sales consultants are typically 100% commission, so don't expect them to waste their time for you if you've made it clear that you have zero intent to buy from them. You want them to fetch keys for you so they can unlock the door? Want to go on a test drive? Well you've made it clear you aren't a buyer so why should they do that for you?

No one is saying dealers are all honest and whatnot. But all you're doing is complaining about dealers while people here are looking for advice. Honestly, your advice would cause a very painful buying experience and cause problems. Which probably explains why you have so many bad experiences with dealerships. Maybe it's you who needs to try a different approach in order to get a better car buying experience.

 

To be honest, it's usually better to bring the vehicle in for a trade assessment. Getting the dealer to commit to a blind quote over the phone or internet will 100% of the time be a lower price, even if they are price matching another dealer. They always want to see the vehicle in person before handing you money for it. Just like you or anyone else typically wouldn't buy a used car without looking at it first.

A strategy dealers will use when assessing a trade in person is have you watch them go over the vehicle while they look for flaws. They want you to acknowledge problems that might reduce the value of the vehicle. You don't have to say anything during this process, and it's best not to. But at least come into a dealer having a good idea of what your trade is worth. NADA is usually the best consumer source, KBB gets a little off target.

 

My approach was, "hey do you have any max tow f150's?" What came after that was everything but a max tow f150 being sold to me with the traditional high pressure sales dog and pony show with continuous badgering for my credit info and drivers license and what I wanted for a payment even after I made it 100% clear I wasn't financing. So please tell me we're I went wrong, why I deserve that crap from multiple dealerships? I did NOT ask for a test drive, I did not ask for a key, because hey guess what I worked in sales too and I don't waste peoples time because I know what that is like. I asked a yes or no question and got everything else but. Obviously it's my fault I didn't take the first truck offered to me even though I was very clear, even printed specs I needed and it was nothing near what I wanted. I mean engine, cab config and bed lengths are just minor details I should have just taken what was graciously offered to me huh? If your ever in SE MI lets hit a few of these dealers and you can try the passive buyer method and see how you fair. I was nothing but nice and very forgiveing with the first 5 dealers or so. They wasted the better half of my day trying to force me into everything other than what I wanted with out saying a word each time until I lost it and called the last on his carp. Yeah I wasn't the nicest to the next few but I had wasted a week of my time being feed the same pitch over and over so when asked "how can I help" I replied "do you have a max tow f150 on YOUR lot and what's the OTD?" . Finally I gave up on a trying to find a deal and had my buddy dealer transfer me one in from who knows where. I paid a lot more than I wanted and wasted a ton of my time, but I guess I deserved it right? they are sales people, but I also value my time, what little I have so being lied to and led astray really pisses me off.


And yes dealers inflate the hell out of your trade and purchase price, you honestly can't tell me you don't know how that works if you were in any kind of sales. Truck has an OTD of 42k, guy walks in and wants to buy it. His trade is worth 20k, math would say his sale price should be 22k plus all the extras but the guy doesn't ask what OTD is to start. Guy doesn't like the trade, so the used car/wholesale manager "sharpens his pencil." they come back with the "well we will eat this one" and offer 24k on the trade. Guys happy, he won! But what he doesn't know is the sale price of the truck is now 47k OTD and the dealer just made another grand on top of the sale. The buyer does not know any better, he's very likely uninformed to average retail and just think the truck was 47k all along. You can try and deny it all you want, maybe you and the dealer were one of the few honest ones but this happens all the time. Same thing for cramming on people with good credit and looking at a vehicle that would be under their ideal payment, just raise the price until the monthly payment is what they wanted and it's all 100% profit.

I want people to be aware of how to spot shady *** dealers, because there are plenty out there. Sure not all but enough people should be aware of the tricks and how to avoid some. Doesn't mean your rude to them, or you are trying to pull one over on the dealer, it's just not being blind and naive and thinking that no ones going to take advantage of you.
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I took that into consideration but he offered the same price as CarMax did. CarMax quoted the value and would buy it from me without me buying a car from them. I told the dealer the CarMax's offer and they matched it. I assured him it was in a great shape and very well maintained and he was going to hold that against me but he found nothing to try to knock off a few dollars.

 

If I were doing a deal with a potential trade, I would want it appraised immediately. In my mind, that's at least the first or second step in the negotiating process.

As for discussing payments early on, I never do it and never will. I have an idea what I want to pay "monthly" and by the time I've started shopping, I've run the numbers on every damned payment calculator available.

It's no secret that if you can negotiate the price down and then negotiate terms that are acceptable, the payment will come down with it.

Look, early in the process if you disclose that you are willing to pay say $300 p/m for a car and the dealer asks the age old question, "if I can get you into this car for $300 p/m, will you buy it today"? That should be the point where you should recognize a lynching is about to happen. Why? Because the dealer will lower the price of the car or raise your appraisal to cut the numbers and then come in on the back end with an inflated interest rate and or a set of dealer added items such as protection plans, etc.

If you're smart enough to catch them, you can figure real quick that you cold have the car at 1.9% instead of 7% and you didn't need to buy all those frivolities that the dealer added and then you realize that you could have saved $100 p/m OR, that $300 p/m that you agreed to could have gotten you into a better car.

I don't consider any of these tactics to be dishonest. But, buyer beware.

 

This all very cool.

My daughter will be home from Kuwait in about three weeks and she wants to buy a 2018 F-150 4x4. She's a 1st LT in the Army, single and well compensated. She's uncomfortable at going this alone so I'm diving in to help her negotiate the deal.

So, she's pre-arranged financing going and will also let t he F&I guy run his strategy. We'll decide which is better for her.

We'll choose two trucks on the lot that most compliment her wants

She qualifies for the military appreciation and recent college grad monies offered by Ford.

I'm confident that we'll come up with a great deal.

 

Tell her to try and get some private cash offers to knock a bit extra off too.

 

I think the "get educated" comments are the most important and it's what I do.

What do others pay? it will be a range. What are the incentives and which do you qualify for? What is your trade worth? It will be a range. Once you know these things the negotiation goes pretty smoothly. They will have their numbers and you will have yours. If they can sell it for more to someone else, they will. If you can't achieve common ground then either move on or reassess your numbers.

The worst that can happen is they say no. If you don't hear that a few times then your likely leaving money on the table.