ARP head studs - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Notices
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van

ARP head studs

Reply

 
 
 
  #1  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:00 AM
rattleNsmoke's Avatar
rattleNsmoke
rattleNsmoke is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Western Connecticut
Posts: 618
rattleNsmoke is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
ARP head studs

I'm looking to buy the kit. Cheapest I've seen is through Summit Racing. ARP offers two kits. One is around $400 bucks, the other around $1,100. My engine is stock with a kitty cat delete, EGR delete, 4 inch MBRP turbo back exhaust and an SCT tuner. I tow heavy and use the light tow tune setting. For those that have had their engines studded, which kit did you use? I don't want to take a chance of lifting the heads again and puking the Degas bottle but I'm not in favor of overkill and spending the added money for the Pro kit needlessly. Help....
Thanks in advance. Mike
 
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:49 AM
PAf250
PAf250 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 157
PAf250 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I used the regular $400 studs. All I run is the Atlas 40 FICM tune. I don't think you need to use the 625s unless you plan on making bigger power than you plan on making. Now if it helps you sleep better knowing you used the best, then use them. Make sure the heads are good and flat, and use a proven head gasket.
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:39 PM
rattleNsmoke's Avatar
rattleNsmoke
rattleNsmoke is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Western Connecticut
Posts: 618
rattleNsmoke is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Thanks. Sleep is at a premium but so is $$. I have Ford gaskets sitting in my garage ready to go. Heads will be sent to an engine builder for decking and checking.
Mike
 
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:53 PM
Sparky83's Avatar
Sparky83
Sparky83 is offline
Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VB, Va/Norlina NC
Posts: 75,483
Sparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputation
According to ARP the 625 kits are for those pushing big power for racing and things like that.. (1000 hp engines)... for stock and moderately modded engines the cheaper kits are more than enough... Cheapest i found them was on Amazon at the time i was doing mine.
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:10 PM
PAf250
PAf250 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 157
PAf250 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Sounds like you know how to properly get the head gaskets done. Other things to think about while you are in there, without me knowing anything about your truck. Replace the STC fitting on the high pressure oil pump, glow plugs/ harness, 6.4 push rods (they are slightly shorter), Oil cooler (be sure to flush out system before teardown), clean the turbo, stand pipes. I am sure I missed something, but if you plan on keeping the truck these additional repairs aren't bad since you are already in there.
 
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:06 PM
Mike in Arizona
Mike in Arizona is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 205
Mike in Arizona is starting off with a positive reputation.
After all I read on this topic, the $400 set is all you need for a tow vehicle so that's what I bought.
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:24 PM
DSMMH's Avatar
DSMMH
DSMMH is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by PAf250 View Post
Sounds like you know how to properly get the head gaskets done. Other things to think about while you are in there, without me knowing anything about your truck. Replace the STC fitting on the high pressure oil pump, glow plugs/ harness, 6.4 push rods (they are slightly shorter), Oil cooler (be sure to flush out system before teardown), clean the turbo, stand pipes. I am sure I missed something, but if you plan on keeping the truck these additional repairs aren't bad since you are already in there.
Iím a little confused. What is the advantage of the shorter 6.4 pushrods in a 6.0?

Ed
 
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:46 PM
TooManyToys.'s Avatar
TooManyToys.
TooManyToys. is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 5,890
TooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud of
There wasn't any TSB or other technical notice from Ford or International from what I've searched, only that the original length is no longer sold within the Ford system.

Some say it prevents the lifters from pumping up or there is less pressure on the cam during non lift as the internal spring within the lifter is not compressed as much, thereby reducing the tendency to bounce. I've taken a lifter apart and I'm not sure if this does anything other then reducing the amount of valve lift, which would reduce HP and combustion pressure. From what I observed it takes longer lift before the lifter goes solid. If someone can explain it I'm all ears.

The 6.4L has a different valve train geometry but how that relates to the 6.0 ???? ...... The shorter pushrod was the standard pushrod for the 6.4. It would've taken some serious FU to not have engineered the correct length in the first place. It ain't new science.
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:54 PM
Mike in Arizona
Mike in Arizona is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 205
Mike in Arizona is starting off with a positive reputation.
They're all of .047" shorter, and more robust. Less likely to bend, and maybe less wear on the cam and rockers?
 
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:44 AM
rattleNsmoke's Avatar
rattleNsmoke
rattleNsmoke is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Western Connecticut
Posts: 618
rattleNsmoke is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Wow, great information. Thank you guys! Shorter push rods...hmm. It's worth considering. I've ordered from Auto Nation Ford, a new oil cooler rebuild kit, an oil pressure sender and air charge sensor (both of which were extremely cheap and buried under the intake manifold anyway), as well as a new serpentine belt, two new radiator hoses, thermostat, idler and tensioner pulley since it's easy-peasy cab-off. The IPR valve blew the screen 4 years ago so I had it done along with new turbo oil lines, stand pipes and dummy plugs and the infamous STC fitting. At that time I bit the bullet and did the kitty cat and EGR valve delete along with the MBRP exhaust. The SCT tuner was recommended to eliminate the check engine light so I've been running the 65hp canned tune ever since. Last month I had the turbo rebuilt with a stainless billet Unison ring and 360 degree oil slinger from KC Turbo. Oh well, I got 4 years out of the TTY bolts...*s.
I know folks here have used custom application tunes with their SCT tuner. Which third party vendor does the best custom tune for the buck out there?
Mike
 
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:02 AM
DSMMH's Avatar
DSMMH
DSMMH is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,378
DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.DSMMH has a great reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by TooManyToys. View Post
There wasn't any TSB or other technical notice from Ford or International from what I've searched, only that the original length is no longer sold within the Ford system.

Some say it prevents the lifters from pumping up or there is less pressure on the cam during non lift as the internal spring within the lifter is not compressed as much, thereby reducing the tendency to bounce. I've taken a lifter apart and I'm not sure if this does anything other then reducing the amount of valve lift, which would reduce HP and combustion pressure. From what I observed it takes longer lift before the lifter goes solid. If someone can explain it I'm all ears.

The 6.4L has a different valve train geometry but how that relates to the 6.0 ???? ...... The shorter pushrod was the standard pushrod for the 6.4. It would've taken some serious FU to not have engineered the correct length in the first place. It ain't new science.
Jack, thanks for the info.

Ed
 
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:44 AM
TooManyToys.'s Avatar
TooManyToys.
TooManyToys. is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 5,890
TooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud ofTooManyToys. has much to be proud of
I'm not sure how much value is in the info I posted because as I've said I don't understand this unless the original design was a FUBAR. And the last time I posted anything about this I got a crap load of derogatory comments in a PM.

A pushrod change should not alter anything up in the top valvetrain geometry. The valves and rockers all stay in the same place and do the same thing. If you alter the amount of lift you do alter the engagement and pressure angle at the top of the valve stem or in our case the bridge. With most motors, then you see more valve guide wear. That's not a history with the 6.0L.

An example, not the Powerstroke.





So from my view, there's nothing going on here.


My understanding of lifter preload is the common range is 0.020" to 0.060". There are a few cam manufacturers who have stated the ideal is 0.030" to 0.040", which is what you would expect based on the range. So with non-adjustable rockers like we have the normal way to get into that range is to grind the top of the valve stem to a specific height off the head gasket mounting surface, and have consistency in the head gasket thickness. When you mill heads or alter the valve recession, the relationship changes and the stem gets machined to compensate. Or you buy different length pushrods. If you don't the valves do not fully close and you burn the valve and seats, again, not a history of this motor. Our motors valve recession spec is 0.0125" to 0.0268", about a 0.014" range. That's exceeding the the ideal, but within the total 0.020" to 0.060" range I'm used to.

So yanking 0.047" out of the pushrod to me is a pretty big deal without explanation when you have a 0.040" preload range.

Quick lifter views.






Other then when machining the heads and valves, pushrod changes need to be made when the base circle of the cam is altered. If that was done with later cams, then Ford should have issues a TSB.
 
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:56 AM
Sparky83's Avatar
Sparky83
Sparky83 is offline
Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: VB, Va/Norlina NC
Posts: 75,483
Sparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputationSparky83 has a superb reputation
tbh ive never understood the reasoning behind the shorter rods either... ive had some people tell me it was to prevent bent rods that were "common" on the 6.0's.. but the only place i ever heard of that happening were from the people pushing to use the shorter rods.. if this was as common as those are people are saying wed be seeing thread after thread about rods being bent in this engine and i just dont see that anywhere... with all the "reported" problems people complain about with this engine that is just not one of them..

TBH if your suddenly bending push rods in a factory setup engine you have issues in your timing not rod length.. if youve cracked the engine open, milled the mating surfaces, made sure the timing was 100% correct and have now bent one then yeah the length could be an issue.. at which point in either case youll have more issues than just a bent rod..
 
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:48 AM
High_HP
High_HP is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 226
High_HP is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I agree with TooManyToys judging off the few engine builds and refreshes I've done on pushrod V8s. You don't want to alter the engineered/determined pushrod length unless a change in a variable calls for it, even then marking compound needs to be used and measurements re-verified. Those illustrations are really beneficial.
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-13-2018, 04:07 PM
PAf250
PAf250 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 157
PAf250 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I am not an expert. I updated to the shorter push rods when I did my gaskets and have not had a problem (50K or so). Things to think about. I am pretty sure ford only makes the shorter push rods (a common 6.4/6.0), been like this for a while. So either ford wants everyone to use the shorter push rods, or ford is wrong by not continuing to make the longer ones. Also, if I remember correctly, one of the ends of the rods is a different metal to reduce wear. I believe it is the rocker end. The original 6.0 push rods aren't like this.
 
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.