I am not a mechanic so forgive my non-technical language. I try and do some basic stuff but take my vehicles to Alamo Diesel Service for real work. Seems like the whole lot is full of Ford diesels and Excursions so that is comforting. And they are very professional and down to earth, a family business.

What is bothering me now. In my 2001 Excursion, 7.3 diesel, 155,000 miles, Edge tuner, it is now randomly taking a long time to turn over and start. I've owned it more than a year with perfect starts. Over the past 3 months, randomly, without any cause I can discern, usually in the late afternoon, I try to start it and the battery and starter are strong, cranking and cranking and no turnover. Sometimes it will take up to 10 minutes with 20-30 attempts and, bam, it fires up and starts perfectly out of the blue and drives great.

Sometimes it has done that difficult to start routine in the afternoons when it is time to come home from work 4-5 days in a row with perfect morning starts, even in 20-30 degree weather. And then it might go 2 weeks with perfect starts twice a day. I've had about 10 days good and it happened again last night after having started three times earlier in the day just fine.

Oil is fresh and doesn't leak. Brand new starter from 2017. Both batteries tested strong. Strong, loud cranking sound, just doesn't turn over.

It is so random, I am worried about dropping it off for service before running it by this community. Anything I can do that is beginner to intermediate before dropping it off with the mechanic. Or, any hints I should give the mechanic?

Thanks!

 

Do you mean the starter is spinning and the engine isn't cranking, or the starter and engine are cranking together but the engine isn't starting, firing up?

The first is either the starter has failed and the gear isn't extending and catching the flywheel, or there's a bad spot on the flywheel where the teeth are worn and it's skipping. But that would give you a loud grinding noise.

The second would probably be an electrical issue, where some sensor input is missing and the PCM is not telling the injectors to fire. A common intermittent cause for this is the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) on the front of the engine. You should also see a check engine (SES) light on the dash. Even if the SES light goes out, the error code is stored.

If you've been a good customer at this Alamo service place, they might be willing to check your codes for free (it's very simple and only takes a few minutes). Places like Autozone and such advertise this free service, but oftentimes their code readers don't work with our diesels and the techs aren't familiar enough to know this.

 

Just the starter sound is happening.

 

So if I understand this right............you just get a "ZING" from the starter???

If that's the case, Easy fix. Pull your starter after you disconnect the neg leads from BOTH batteries.

After it's out, take a good look at the flywheel and make sure you don't have a dental problem. (No missing teeth)

If your dental exam is good, go buy a new starter and install in reverse order.

Denny

 

Just to be clear, the engine is not actually "cranking" even though the starter is spinning?

Sounds like you are saying the starter is not making the engine turn over to start.

But when the starter actually makes the engine spin, then it starts fine?

Welcome to the forum from Tennessee! We are all going to be patient and really examine your word choice closely as you have limited mechanical experience. Please also be patient with us as we do so, even if it means answering the same question several times.

Also, since you are describing an intermittent condition, I agree getting more info and doing a little troubleshooting is a good idea before taking it to a shop. Still, we first need to make sure we all agree on what certain words mean.

 

DogRidesInBack and DieselDenny and SaintITC,

OK, thank you for your patience with a novice. I am happy to try to answer over and over if I can eventually get my description in better language. Here goes.

I put the key in. I turn it to where it tells me to wait while the glow plugs get ready. Then I try to turn it further to start it and it makes the rev, rev, rev sound just like it is going to start but, ARGH, the rev, rev, rev just continues and continues and continues. I have an Edge tuner and the battery power is usually around 14. It stays solid. The engine is really trying. Battery is good. Starting noises keep rev, rev, rev'ing but the engine doesn't "turn over" or "start." Forgive me for the improper words here.

I also drive a 2000 7.3 diesel Excursion so I have a point of comparison. They sound exactly the same at start up. Rev, rev, kaboom, running. On the 2001, randomly as described above usually in the afteroon, but very randomly, although sometimes days in a row, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, rev, nothing. 20-30 times for long periods and the, out of the blue, it starts right up and pretends like nothing ever happened.

I have used the 2000 to take my large family on camping trips far from home, pulling a very heavy RV (no issues) but I am quite a bit concerned about taking the 2001 on the road pullin the RV.

Thanks!

 

The sound during "second 17" of this YouTube video is what I meant when I said it keeps cranking and cranking (or, rev'ing and rev'ing) but doesn't turn over or start the engine. And, then, after 5 or 10 minutes of trying, it starts. It is the sound at "second 18-19" of this video that I am after... Oh, yeah... that good sound.

 

Your "rev rev rev" is "turn over", "rev" is stepping on the fuel peddle and raising RPM's on an engine that is already running. Your "turn over" is "start". This will help us understand what you mean. I would suggest that you get a scanner and check for codes and monitor your numbers when trying to start. Intermittent problems are usually caused by loose connections or chafed wires shorting out. On the driver's side VC there is a 42 pin connector and a large wire bundle. That wire bundle has a track record for rubbing through on the VC and causing shorts, check there and check all of your other connections, particularly around the valve covers.

 

From 8 seconds to 17 seconds in your video...

Is that the starter spinning? At 18 seconds, the engine fires up perfectly.

 

My apologies for the confusion. That is not my video, that is just from the Internet. I was using it to illustrate the sounds I am hearing to clarify terms.

That sound in this other guy's video at 17 seconds, right before the engire starts up, that is the sound that occurs when it won't start. Holding the key to start it and that sound just keeps going and going. So far, it does eventually start but can take up to 5-10 minutes of trying and resting.

I just drove it this morning. Two good starts, no issue. Very random but when it happens it sure feels like I am going to have to call a tow truck.

 

Sounds like fuel pump running not starter spinning. Think the video was just for example not a true no start like the OP is experiencing.

OP, lots of terms out there. Don't get discouraged, we'll help if we can.

So the engine is turning over when you turn the key but not firing off. You say the voltage is around 14 during cranking? this sounds high. The high compression of these engines takes a lot of force and even good batteries will drop a volt or 2 during cranking and they start about 12.3 to 12.6 sitting static. Only time you should see 14 is with the vehicle running and alternator charging. Get a meter or in cab tester to watch voltage during crank. Shouldn't drop below 10 if batteries are good.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equus-Inn...&wl13=&veh=sem

Next time it happens you can try unplugging the ICP sensor. Also look for oil indside the plug on this sensor. They do go bad over time. It's on the driver side head toward the front. picture attached.

 

The video is not his video. He used it to "pick out" the sounds he is describing. So from post #10 it seems he is referring to the sound of the starter spinning the engine w/o the engine starting, i.e., a long crank. If his engine only makes the sounds in the video, then there's nothing wrong with his starter / flywheel - since there's nothing wrong with the truck in the video.

Anyway, a long crank issue without any hint of the engine attempting to fire, and then a proper start, is likely low ICP. The PCM will not command the injectors to fire at all until ICP hits 400-500 psi (I don't know the magic number). There are a number of things that could lead to low ICP during cranking; HPOP reservoir leaking down between runs, failing injector O-rings, IPR.

And it's always possible that your CPS (mentioned previously) is also questionable, as it can cause erratic behavior, but not just during starting. When it's cranking and not firing, does the tach indicate engine speed (RPM)? If the needle isn't moving at all, that's a good indicator of a bad CPS.

We will need better info, do you know someone who can run diagnostics while cranking? We will need to see ICP, RPM, IPR (% and DC), and voltage.

 

OK, I understand the video and your reason for posting it now.

So it sounds like your starter is fine (assuming it is turning the engine over fast enough to start it). Since the engine does sometimes start, I am assuming it is good until proven otherwise.

SaintITC is asking the right questions at this point, except for one more thing to consider... What is the air temperature and how cold is the engine when it does not start versus when it does start? If the problem only happens when the engine is cold, I would want to make sure the glow plug relay and glow plugs are good.

Your voltage measurement of 14 needs closer inspection. I only see 14V on a running engine.

With the engine off, you should see a little over 12 volts. Then with the key on, it should drop about 1 volt for up to 2 minutes. This is how long the glow plugs stay on when the engine is cold. The glow plugs draw a lot of power, so the drag on the battery is noticeable. The WTS (Wait To Start) light on the dash only stays on for a few seconds, but the glow plugs stay active longer than that. After start, you should see about 14 volts as the alternator recharges the batteries.

For the other info Saint is asking for, I think the TorquePro app with a bluetooth dongle for the OBD port can read those values. I've been thinking about buying that myself. Does require an Android phone or tablet, do you have one of those?

 

I think he is saying the engine is cranking but not firing.

 

Do you have RPM gauge on your dash? Does it move while cranking?

If you do not have RPM signal, it could be CPS. Keep in mind, we are not jumping at all different things, rather we are trying to mention things our fellow members have not yet mentioned