460 swap
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460 swap
Hey. I bought a 85 ford f 250 4x4 4 speed.
Knowing the engine was blown. I did not know it was not rebuildable.
Bought a 460 from a 73 Lincoln internally balanced.
The original truck engine that is junk was externally balanced.
couple of questions:
engine crankshafts same length?
i know I have to zero balance the flywheel but can that be done at the machine shop or do I need to purchase another!
pilot bushing. What do I do ? Is the Lincoln crankshaft already drilled and if it is is it the correct size.?
Thanks in advance.
Knowing the engine was blown. I did not know it was not rebuildable.
Bought a 460 from a 73 Lincoln internally balanced.
The original truck engine that is junk was externally balanced.
couple of questions:
engine crankshafts same length?
i know I have to zero balance the flywheel but can that be done at the machine shop or do I need to purchase another!
pilot bushing. What do I do ? Is the Lincoln crankshaft already drilled and if it is is it the correct size.?
Thanks in advance.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 787
From: Simi Valley, CA
Internal balanced 460 uses a different harmonic balancer and flex plate than an external balanced 460. The crank is also different.
1983 was the first year that the 460 was available with a M/T & 4WD. ALL 1968/82 460's came with C6's.
1983 was the first year that the 460 was available with a M/T & 4WD. ALL 1968/82 460's came with C6's.
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So the deal is I have a internally balanced 73 Lincoln 460 motor complete. So I’ll use the harmonic balancer from it. I just need to use a zero balance flywheel due to the internal balanced engine. So I’m assuming I have to purchase a new one or have the one from my truck zero balanced.
Many info on the pilot bushing needed.
May truck is a 4 speed
thanks.
Many info on the pilot bushing needed.
May truck is a 4 speed
thanks.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,955
Likes: 4,126
From: Angier, NC
I would say you are right on the flywheel, you need one that matches how the motor was balanced.
As for the pilot bushing you should be able to look at both to see if the crank ends are the same and will take the bushing.
As a guess I would say they are both the same and it will take the bushing......but it is a guess.
BTW I know of only 1 car manf. that used different cranks for stick or auto cars and that was back in the early 60's cars.
You can also ask over here as some of the members have done this swap http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/
Dave ----
As for the pilot bushing you should be able to look at both to see if the crank ends are the same and will take the bushing.
As a guess I would say they are both the same and it will take the bushing......but it is a guess.
BTW I know of only 1 car manf. that used different cranks for stick or auto cars and that was back in the early 60's cars.
You can also ask over here as some of the members have done this swap http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/
Dave ----
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Thanks for the input and link
unfortunately I do not have the old junk motor that came out of the truck anymore. I scrapped the block,mains, and crank. Totally unusable.
This has been a project for 2 years and I’m just now getting things going. All machining done already and I’m starting to assemble next week.
Thanks again.
unfortunately I do not have the old junk motor that came out of the truck anymore. I scrapped the block,mains, and crank. Totally unusable.
This has been a project for 2 years and I’m just now getting things going. All machining done already and I’m starting to assemble next week.
Thanks again.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,955
Likes: 4,126
From: Angier, NC
Have you checked with the machine shop on the crank end if it will take a bushing or not? I would think they would know.
I would also think they would know if the flywheel will bolt up, I think it will.
If it will then you can see how much it will run to re-balance to work with the motor you have now as it may be cheaper than a new one that matches the balance you need.
ND/Bill only knows what was used in what years based on balance even if the they will bolt up to the other crank.
Dave ----
I would also think they would know if the flywheel will bolt up, I think it will.
If it will then you can see how much it will run to re-balance to work with the motor you have now as it may be cheaper than a new one that matches the balance you need.
ND/Bill only knows what was used in what years based on balance even if the they will bolt up to the other crank.
Dave ----
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Simi Valley, CA
Ford changed the 460 midyear 1979, there are no before/from serial numbers or production dates.
The block casting number must be known to get the correct harmonic balancer and flex plate.
D1VE-6015-AB or A1B or A2B Internal Balance: 1971/73 429; 1971/78 460; Some 1979 F150/350 & E250/350.
D9TE-6015-AB External Balance (has a weighted crank spacer): Some 1979 F150/350 & E250/350; 1980/97 E250/350 & 1983/97 F250/350.
No 460's in F100's after 1976, Passenger Cars after 1978, F150's after 1979, 1980/82 F250/350. 460 reintroduced in 1983 F250/350.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,303
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From: NJ
Internal and external balance harmonic balancers are the same on 460s. The spacer behind the balancer is different, internal will be a simple round spacer, externally balanced will have a bobweight or "hatcher" hanging off it.
Yes you can have an external imbalance flywheel zero balanced to run on the internally balanced engine, most any machine shop should be able to do this for you. Call around and ask.
It has been a while for me but I suspect there are two ID sizes on 429/460 cranks for the pilot bushing. Measure yours and check part specs so you have parts ahead of time. I have an internally balanced 460 crank under my bench but no readily accessible externally balanced crank otherwise I'd compare these for you.
Check the head casting numbers on that Lincoln engine. If it was an early '73 it might have D2VE heads. These were one year only and are absolutely horrible for power and very detonation prone. If you have D2VE heads, do not run them under any circumstances. The 460 that came with the truck should have either D3VE or E6TE heads, which are effectively identical. I've ported both castings and couldn't discern any difference. If your Lincoln engine has D3VE heads, it's fine. You should really do some port work on the exhaust side while it's out but if they are in serviceable condition they're fine to run as cast.
Yes you can have an external imbalance flywheel zero balanced to run on the internally balanced engine, most any machine shop should be able to do this for you. Call around and ask.
It has been a while for me but I suspect there are two ID sizes on 429/460 cranks for the pilot bushing. Measure yours and check part specs so you have parts ahead of time. I have an internally balanced 460 crank under my bench but no readily accessible externally balanced crank otherwise I'd compare these for you.
Check the head casting numbers on that Lincoln engine. If it was an early '73 it might have D2VE heads. These were one year only and are absolutely horrible for power and very detonation prone. If you have D2VE heads, do not run them under any circumstances. The 460 that came with the truck should have either D3VE or E6TE heads, which are effectively identical. I've ported both castings and couldn't discern any difference. If your Lincoln engine has D3VE heads, it's fine. You should really do some port work on the exhaust side while it's out but if they are in serviceable condition they're fine to run as cast.
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Thanks for the info. The Lincoln has D3 heads. 1973. So that’s the heads I’m using
On the issue of the pilot bushing. I think I’m ok. Was at machine shop yesterday and it looks like it’s drilled for pilot bushing to accept 4 speed input shaft. Thank god.
heard that some Lincoln early cranks were not drilled for manual transmission
unfortunately my machine shop will will not turn flywheel due to to much weight to take off. Have to find another machine shop or buy a new
On the issue of the pilot bushing. I think I’m ok. Was at machine shop yesterday and it looks like it’s drilled for pilot bushing to accept 4 speed input shaft. Thank god.
heard that some Lincoln early cranks were not drilled for manual transmission
unfortunately my machine shop will will not turn flywheel due to to much weight to take off. Have to find another machine shop or buy a new
Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 217
Likes: 5
Thanks for the info. The Lincoln has D3 heads. 1973. So that’s the heads I’m using
On the issue of the pilot bushing. I think I’m ok. Was at machine shop yesterday and it looks like it’s drilled for pilot bushing to accept 4 speed input shaft. Thank god.
heard that some Lincoln early cranks were not drilled for manual transmission
unfortunately my machine shop will will not turn flywheel due to to much weight to take off. Have to find another machine shop or buy a new
On the issue of the pilot bushing. I think I’m ok. Was at machine shop yesterday and it looks like it’s drilled for pilot bushing to accept 4 speed input shaft. Thank god.
heard that some Lincoln early cranks were not drilled for manual transmission
unfortunately my machine shop will will not turn flywheel due to to much weight to take off. Have to find another machine shop or buy a new
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 787
From: Simi Valley, CA
on 460s. The spacer behind the balancer is different, internal will be a simple round spacer, externally balanced will have a bobweight or "hatcher" hanging off it..D4VZ-6316-A .. Harmonic Balancer-Internal Balance & D0OZ-6359-A .. Crankshaft Damper Spacer - Use with block casting number D1VE-6015-AB or A1B or A2B
D9TZ-6316-A .. Harmonic Balancer-External Balance & D9TZ-6359-A .. Crankshaft Damper Spacer-Weighted - Use with block casting number D9TE-6015-AB
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,303
Likes: 29
From: NJ
You can also get an internally balanced 460 flywheel and have it drilled and tapped for your pressure plate. There's no off the shelf options I'm aware of.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p...view/make/ford
Alternatively, piece it together with off the shelf parts like the flywheel below, find a pressure plate to fit that and a ZF5 clutch disc. Or try the same with a 390 flywheel, maybe you can find an off the shelf pressure plate and disc that will work.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...view/make/ford
Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 217
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hayes 12-240 fits the FE series 352,390,427,428 and the 385 series 429, 460. so the crank mounting must be the same 2.5" register with 6 holes on all.
with other flywheels there are numerous options, tooth count of 176 & 184, clutch diameters of 11, 11.5 and 12. inches., long or diaphragm patterns.
some have a removeable 28 ounce weight to fit both internal and external balances.
I hit the Jegs site and looked up 69 Torino with 390, and 70 Mustang Boss 429 to get info.
the flywheel I have for my 460 came from a 70 Boss 429 that was a drag racer. no Ford trademark on it, must be aftermarket. 176 tooth, 15.5 overall tooth diameter, approx. 14-5/16" friction diameter, 2.5" register 6 holes about .9" thick, its been ground, 11.5" clutch, zero/internal balance.
I'm not yet certain how these will fit the ZF5
most of the flywheels are certified and expensive, $300 or more. Jegs did list a house branded one for about $80.
with other flywheels there are numerous options, tooth count of 176 & 184, clutch diameters of 11, 11.5 and 12. inches., long or diaphragm patterns.
some have a removeable 28 ounce weight to fit both internal and external balances.
I hit the Jegs site and looked up 69 Torino with 390, and 70 Mustang Boss 429 to get info.
the flywheel I have for my 460 came from a 70 Boss 429 that was a drag racer. no Ford trademark on it, must be aftermarket. 176 tooth, 15.5 overall tooth diameter, approx. 14-5/16" friction diameter, 2.5" register 6 holes about .9" thick, its been ground, 11.5" clutch, zero/internal balance.
I'm not yet certain how these will fit the ZF5
most of the flywheels are certified and expensive, $300 or more. Jegs did list a house branded one for about $80.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
Likes: 787
From: Simi Valley, CA
C5AZ-6375-L .. 390 Flywheel- Use with 11 1/2" clutch / 184T ring gear / (6) 5/16" -18 pressure plate attaching holes on a 12 7/8" bolt circle: 1968/76 F100/350 & 1965/71 Passenger Cars.