RV
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,720
Likes: 12,864
From: Wyoming
Those are some heavy trailers. I know my F-350 couldn't pull them due to the pin weight.
I prefer the Grand Design. Having just one bathroom gives more room for seating and gives a more open area.
I prefer the Grand Design. Having just one bathroom gives more room for seating and gives a more open area.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,477
Likes: 4,069
From: Raceland, La.
One thing I like is the extra 1/2 bath in our Fuzion...kind of spoils you and great for the little ones to make their mess in!
Prolocutor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,618
Likes: 1,247
From: Western MA
I always was against the second bath. Many require a second outlet in the rear of the RV due to too long a run for gravity to do it's thing. All have a separate black tank and since black tanks need to be 2/3rds full or more to dump properly, we'd never get both full enough for a proper dump without taking the time to fill them with water. Then the monster started requiring 1/3rd or more of the bathroom time allotment. Now, I've got two women in front of me in line and wish I had a second throne. I even considered adding one to a corner of my garage since it's 14' long and I could likely spare it.
Prolocutor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,618
Likes: 1,247
From: Western MA
I and others have had poor post sale service from Keystone. All the major brands are built equally. In other words, like crap. It's the support you get after the sale that's the most important thing which is why I like your first two choices the best. If you go XLR, shop Couch's in OH. They are over 35% off MSRP on a factory order. Low pressure too. You can build and price on their website to get the exact cost emailed to you.
https://www.couchsrvnation.com
https://www.couchsrvnation.com
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Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,720
Likes: 12,864
From: Wyoming
Based on what I've heard of Keystone's customer service I wouldn't hook up to a Keystone RV even with a Dodge. 
I have no small kids. Camping will be mostly my wife and I. If I have nephews camping with me I tell them there's a whole forest out there, pick a tree.
I have no small kids. Camping will be mostly my wife and I. If I have nephews camping with me I tell them there's a whole forest out there, pick a tree.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 9
Service depends on the dealer. Pete's RV in Indiana and Burlington VT are top notch with Keystone. They even got warranty work done after the warranty when my exit steps cracked. I've heard good things about Couch's as well for purchase.
Senior User
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 477
Likes: 3
Video of the Forest River XLR:
Here's my comments:
Video of the "Grand Designs Momentum 394M":
My thoughts:
Here's my comments:
- Nobody can enter the camper from the front door if the cook is accessing the pantry door.
- 4 person theater seating so you can look at your full-size fridge or watch the person making the food. Then you get to sit right next to a wafer thin door where someone is playing the toilet tuba. But you can still get a really good crick in your neck if you watch a 2 hour movie at a 90 degree angle on the TV to the left.
- The extra bed design in the rear section is awesome to enjoy that garage lifestyle you always wanted. Gasoline vapors coming from the on-board gasoline tank makes for restful sleeping.
- Then you get a television mounted near the ceiling in the garage which makes for another awesome viewing angle.
- The side-deck looks like the only comfortable place to watch a movie or the game. It has space for a couple of lawn chairs and a fireplace to keep your feet toasty too.
- The only real bedroom is actually pretty decent. Very minimal space on one side of the bed.
- There is no dining table.
Video of the "Grand Designs Momentum 394M":
My thoughts:
- Walking in the front door, you're looking into a decent space cordoned off for the cook.
- There is a dining table right next to the kitchen in the main living space.
- On the L-shaped couch, you can only fit 2 people since the legs will interfere.
- Part of the couch blocks the fireplace(?)
- 4 of 5 seats has 90 degree viewing angle to the TV but you can pull the TV out and angle it away from 2 of the seats making it semi-veiwable from 3 of 5 seats (if you can fit 3 on that L-shaped couch).
- Several of the seats in the living space are not pointed toward each other which doesn't make a good space for sitting and conversing with others. (including with the cook)
- There's a window next to the couch but you can't look out it from seated position because the couch is so thick.
- There's a bunk-bed in the living room but no apparent way to get up there.
- More in-garage seating but these are facing each other for interventions about getting high on gas fumes in the garage and other aggressive conversations.
- These garage seats are at a 90 degree angle to the television. I'm sure the seats convert into a bed, which makes for 2 sets of beds in the garage. Keep those kids high on the gasoline fumes while they're sleeping.
- Washer/dryer hookup in the garage area so you can do laundry while the kids are passed out from the gas fumes.
- A counter, sink, faucet, and microwave? Wow, we've never seen these before. I'm glad she gave a little demonstration of them.
- The toilet is at an angle because they tried to shove it into such a small space that you can't sit there comfortably. Now you have to hit your knees on the cabinet and the shower door.
- The only bed room is decent.
- The outdoor TV is in an OK location where you can extend the awning and grill your food while watching the game.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,720
Likes: 12,864
From: Wyoming
Anyhow, your review was very critical. Deservedly so. Most trailers seem to have a random layout. I'm interested to see what you decide is a good layout.
This is one of my wife's chief complaints about trailers we looked at while at the RV show. Me? I don't really care that much. I removed the TV in our trailer last year and haven't put it back in yet. I have found very few trailers where the TV and sitting areas are in sync. 90° angle from sitting area to TV is a joke.
Senior User
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 477
Likes: 3
I have 48 gallons of fuel in two tanks under the rear of my trailer where all the sleeping areas are. I've never smelled fuel inside the trailer and I know I have a very, very small leak in the hoses near the tanks. The leak is only detected when the generator is running.
Anyhow, your review was very critical. Deservedly so. Most trailers seem to have a random layout. I'm interested to see what you decide is a good layout.
This is one of my wife's chief complaints about trailers we looked at while at the RV show. Me? I don't really care that much. I removed the TV in our trailer last year and haven't put it back in yet. I have found very few trailers where the TV and sitting areas are in sync. 90° angle from sitting area to TV is a joke.
Anyhow, your review was very critical. Deservedly so. Most trailers seem to have a random layout. I'm interested to see what you decide is a good layout.
This is one of my wife's chief complaints about trailers we looked at while at the RV show. Me? I don't really care that much. I removed the TV in our trailer last year and haven't put it back in yet. I have found very few trailers where the TV and sitting areas are in sync. 90° angle from sitting area to TV is a joke.
I only wish it was bigger/heavier as it barely gives my 2015 F350 diesel a workout.
Edit: also, the shower was a decent size and the toilet was porcelain.
Last edited by Braggs; Feb 26, 2018 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Added comment about shower.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 295
Likes: 2
Had a great close look at a GD 394M today at my local dealer . Sadly it’s the only toy hauler within 300 miles I can see. Does anyone know of an RV show that would have multiple brands within a days drive of me ( southern Manitoba ) I was at one couple years ago an AZ . I’d like to walk into a raptor and a Forrest river at same lot or at least across the street. And hopefully south of me so it’s bit warmer
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,720
Likes: 12,864
From: Wyoming
This is the company that puts on the RV shows I've been to (twice): RV Shows and Camping Shows - Locate a RV Show near you | GS Events It doesn't look like they operate in CA.
Here's a list of CA shows: https://gorving.ca/rv-shows/ It looks like you're in luck on March 8th.
Here's a list of CA shows: https://gorving.ca/rv-shows/ It looks like you're in luck on March 8th.