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New guy with really odd engine issue!

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Old Apr 29, 2018 | 04:10 PM
  #106  
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That was my thought too! Not cooperative. Even used a freakin' magnifying glass. Still nothing. Wish I could find a pic,
 
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Old Apr 29, 2018 | 06:50 PM
  #107  
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@Skauber, just a suggestion. The FUEL pump relay is turned on and off by the PCM by controlling the ground side of the fuel pump relay.
The interesting thing is that the ground for the control side of the PCM RELAY and the ground for the fuel pump MOTOR is a shared ground on the driver's side radiator support.
If (that's a big IF) that ground is poor, it might be sufficient to pull in the PCM relay coil, but as the fuel pump motor puts more amps through that ground, that could kill the ground for the PCM relay, shutting the PCM down, which would shut down the fuel pump relay, and then the fuel pump, which would cool the ground point, pulling in the PCM relay, pulling in the fuel pump relay, the fuel pump, and repeat. That might be why both relays seem to be clicking. ????
 
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Old Apr 30, 2018 | 12:22 AM
  #108  
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From what ive read of all this the truck ran fine changed motor now have issue with dying have you replaced fuel line 2 have you replaced coil-s and 3 distributer pick up are well known for intermittent shut downs as well as shear pin on distributer shaft while it is very true that pcm s do have intermittent kills they commonly occure from shock factor did you try another pcm ?go back to simple think of what it took to install check all pcm plugs not trying to come off as a smart *** just lookin at it as no problem to what happened and now have problem crank sensor cam sensor loose wire on starter will cause this as well
 
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Old Apr 30, 2018 | 05:14 AM
  #109  
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@Pqford. Yes, that is a possibility. There was a while there I thought it was the PCM relay clicking, which is why I suggested to jump the ground. I haven't checked the schematic on the fuel pump relay, but if PCM controls ground on that, then I am thinking that there is an issue with poor ground somewhere. Possibly even a ground strap which was not reconnected properly or missing after the engine swap. I would check all the main ground points around the engine, battery and battery junction box in this case, also the ground connection to the PCM.
 
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Old Apr 30, 2018 | 06:14 AM
  #110  
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Good morning everyone! Thanks again for all of the assistance so far...
To recap:

Truck ran fine until I damaged the engine. I had the engine swapped. A local shop did the work. (They had lots of ford trucks there so I felt that they were competent.

After the install, all was fine. Truck ran great and we drove it all over the place until is started with this intermittent dying.
I retuned the truck to the shop for them to find the issue. They could not find the issue. It never died on them. As soon as I took it down the street it died and then started with the flashing THEFT light (I took it back) When I left it with them, it go to where the ----- on the odometer would appear and the THEFT light would flash.

The shop was convinced it was a dash issue. With some quick googling that did not appear to be the issue so I had it towed home before they caused damage to the truck.

At this point the following has been done:
1. New (to me) Rebuilt engine
2. New intake manifold
3. New FORD OEM COP's
4. Fresh flowed and matched injectors
5. New fuel filter
6. New IAC
7. 2 new relays (for Fuel pump and PCM)
 
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Old Apr 30, 2018 | 06:29 AM
  #111  
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(cont.)...

Thus far, I've pulled the PCM connection at the bulkhead and it appeared fine (no corrosion or anything suspicious)
All of the wires at the BJB appear fine. (no nicks, no burns, nothing that would draw attention)

As of the past few days, I can tell you that the PCM relay appears fine. (no clicking)
The Fuel Pump Relay clicks if I remove the makeshift ground. (If I attach an extra ground, there is no clicking)
I have fiddled with the placement and the thickness of the makeshift ground wire to see if there was any place that was preferred. (at the fender, at the PS mounting bracket, at the negative battery terminal) --- After several rounds of moving the makeshift ground around, it appears that it's still intermittent when it will cooperate.

After every I would turn the key to ON and see the odo numbers for a brief moment and then ------. If that happened, I would also see the flashing THEFT light.
Sometimes I would go turn the key to ON and the odo numbers would be stationary and the THEFT light would illuminate briefly and then go away. At that time ONLY, would the truck actually fire and run.

I managed to get it to run twice. Both times it ran perfectly until the idle started to dip around 1000rpm. Both times, it died suddenly BEFORE the RPM needle had a chance to drop. (It kinda looked like the RPM needle was surprised that the engine had stopped!) After the first time it died, I turned the key off and then back ON. Everything looked good and it fired again. (I never moved the truck)

Anyway, I suspect that there are a few grounding issues but it's the intermittent aspect that is really frustrating my efforts. So far, none of my successes are reproducible. IF another ground point on the engine was not affixed, why would the truck fire and run intermittently? (It's not moving)

I think I will try and look through my service manuals to locate all of the grounding points. (Maybe add a few more- like some of the imports do. I suppose it can hurt)
 
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Old May 3, 2018 | 04:59 PM
  #112  
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May 2018 Update!

I had some nice weather today so I went out after work and checked all the grounds I could see. All looked good.
Only thing I really did was rub a little corrosion off of a ground to the frame...

I hooked up the battery. Dash odometer was showing mileage instead of ----- . THEFT was flashing. I gave it a try anyway. The truck fired and ran!
The THEFT light kept flashing code "16". I noticed that the rpm was dropping so I kept it up and let it warm up.
After a few minutes the flashing THEFT light stopped. I ran the truck up to operating temp - a good 5 minutes.

I saw the voltage staying low (11.9-13.4) - even though the battery is at 90% (It's back on the charger now)
I turned on all of the accessories and it didn't make much of a difference.


I turned off the truck and removed the key and restarted several times with no issues at all. Flashing THEFT light never came back.

So, I think I will probably add a few more grounds just to be safe. Any suggestions?

Also, am I wrong to distrust the truck? I just hate the idea of it giving me grief on my commute....
 
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Old May 6, 2018 | 12:57 PM
  #113  
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I went out today after the rain finally stopped. Added a nice fat ground from the block to the frame and another to the body.
Battery fully charged.

Same issues as before!!
Noticed that the IAC was clicking (odo was still reading ------) and THEFT light was flashing.
When the IAC stopped clicking, the obo briefly displayed the mileage but then went back to ------.
I'm going to run through the IAC wire to see if there is an issue there
 
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Old May 6, 2018 | 03:52 PM
  #114  
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Code 16 on the theft light indicates communication issue with the ECM. Since it's a little intermittent, where you will have something clicking, like that IAC, then briefly stop and then odo displays normal at the same time, I'm thinking there's something on the wiring harness to the ECM. Pinched wire, rubbing wire or something. Unfortunately, these kinds of problems are often very time consuming and frustrating to find. As you said, check the IAC wires along the harness, also, try to find the communication wires as well. Don't have access to the wiring diagram right now as we're moving and that computer isn't set up right now, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to download the factory service manual for your vehicle, as it contains all diagrams and tells you where they splice, where ground points are located and all goodies like that.
 
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Old May 6, 2018 | 04:25 PM
  #115  
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Skauber: Thanks, I have the hard copy set of the 3 factory service manuals. I just have a hard time deciphering.

After my brief success the other day I had started to button up the knee panel under the dash. When I tried again this morning and had no luck my wife suggested I had moved something. I pulled it back again and started the "wiggle" test among the wires under the dash. I then proceeded to push on the fuses and relays under the dash. All of a sudden the odometer was working and the truck fired up! I turned it off (I touched nothing save for the key). When I re-tried it, the odometer was back to -------.

I now have 2 extra grounds, one from the block to the frame and the other from the block to the body
I have added make-shift grounds from the PCM relay and the Fuel Pump relay to the body
I have not been able to find any loose gounds
I have not found any corroded grounds
All fuses and relays are good
All wiring that can be touched appears to be in excellent condition (nothing chewed up or corroded)
Battery is freshly charged

I'm starting to think that there is an issue between the PCM and the DASH because as soon as the odometer starts to work the truck fires and runs perfectly. Even with the THEFT light flashing it will run. Last time I ignored it and it went away and did not return. I touched nothing. I merely turned off and on a few times. Each time, I verified that the odometer was working properly and the truck was good to go.

Wonder if I should be looking at the dash like my shop was previously doing. (They claimed that it was checked and it was working fine)

This is exhausting...

My wife was reading about HEC (hybrid electronic cluster- instrument) on a 2005... Does this pertain to this model year?
 
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Old May 10, 2018 | 05:34 PM
  #116  
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New update!

I think I may have achieved success!~~~

I was reviewing videos on you tube to try and see if I could find a similar issue. I found this vid:


While I scrolled through the comments the poster said that he had pulled the ignition cylinder, cleaned it and put it back and fixed the problem.
So I went here:

I reviewed the video. I went to the truck and pulled the cylinder. It wasn't particularly dirty but I cleaned it and lightly sanded the contacts anyway.
I reinstalled it and the flashing "THEFT" light went away and the odometer worked. The truck started up fine.
I let it run and turned it off. I wiggled the cylinder and tried to make re-create the failure. It still worked.

I let the truck run and since I have the knee panel loose I wiggled it and the attached wires. It still worked.

I disconnected the battery and pulled the makeshift grounds from the PCM and Fuel Pump relay. No clicking from the relays and it still worked!!!!!

I've shut it down for the evening and will try for a failure tomorrow after work. I need to be able to test and retest and produce the same results before I will conclude that I have a solution. Nevertheless, I am happy that it appears to be a fix at least for now. I'll keep my fingers crossed and I will post again once I have more evidence.

Could it really be this simple?
 
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Old May 10, 2018 | 05:57 PM
  #117  
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^^^ I certainly hope so
 
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Old May 10, 2018 | 05:59 PM
  #118  
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me too
 
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Old May 11, 2018 | 04:01 PM
  #119  
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Cool! If the cylinder or switch contacts are worn, I'd probably be a bit proactive on that and just buy a new switch. Better to do that than to end up stranded somewhere when the switch finally gives up the goose for good. Unfortunately I guess the core and switch is one piece, so you'll have to program the keys as well.. If you have FORScan up and running, this can be done through that.
 
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Old May 11, 2018 | 04:45 PM
  #120  
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I wanted to add an edit I forgot to add before I turned off the computer last night...

I had previously read about people pulling their sill plates to find water damage. I pulled the driver front and it was dry, however the driver rear had a little water and the front and rear passenger side were full of water... That said, we've had very heavy rains recently. There was no visible damage and no indication of water intrusion having been there very long. I pulled the body plugs and drained the water, then wiped both sides until they were nice and dry.

While this COULD have contributed to the issue I am not inclined to believe it did because this issue has been with us for several months. The heavy rains have been recent and the water appeared reasonably fresh.

I just wanted to add this piece just in case anyone else is having these sorts of issues. It may be a place to check just in case.

I just went out and tried the truck again and it's working!! Yippee! I know it sounds weird but that's how odd this issue has been. It's been a regular intermittent issue.

My plan tomorrow is to give her a good cleaning. Then I'll shoot a few pics of the beast for you all to see the source of my recent headaches.

AS for the lock cylinder, it honestly did not appear to be bad at all. I suspect that the contacts were maybe pushed down a little bit and weren't making the connection. After I cleaned them with some "0000" steel wool, I carefully bent them up a little to ensure good contact. It appears to have done the trick. I suppose a test drive will reveal any issues. (I still have a few tows left on my AAA card!! LOL)
 
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