Badly aligned main caps!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,196
Likes: 387
From: Near Los Angeles
Badly aligned main caps!
Hey y'all. I finally got around to putting together a block that's been sitting for ... omgosh, 10 years! Anyway, I put the main caps on today and notice that #1 and #6 were 1/8th" misaligned to the rear of the block. I also have 2 #2 main caps.
All arrows pointing forward. I guess the guy I paid to assemble it the first time was too busy downing a 12pk to notice. Anyway, split milk. I'm off to the j/y tomorrow to get a full set of caps. I hope they will align correctly.
The block is a 78, and I'll be pulling from an efi, so I hope that doesn't raise any issues.
All arrows pointing forward. I guess the guy I paid to assemble it the first time was too busy downing a 12pk to notice. Anyway, split milk. I'm off to the j/y tomorrow to get a full set of caps. I hope they will align correctly.
The block is a 78, and I'll be pulling from an efi, so I hope that doesn't raise any issues.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
Likes: 104
From: Boise, Idaho
Wasn't this the engine you had the oil pressure issues with?
I know my machinist took quite a bit of care lining up the bearing caps just right. Even shimming them with dowels to get them right where he wanted them.
I don't think there's any difference between your block and the EFI block when it comes to bearing caps.
Take some pics!
I know my machinist took quite a bit of care lining up the bearing caps just right. Even shimming them with dowels to get them right where he wanted them.
I don't think there's any difference between your block and the EFI block when it comes to bearing caps.
Take some pics!
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
Caps are machined integral to the block. You cant add different caps and expect it to work withou remachining the bores. Sounds like the caps were mixed up with another block (why you have 2 #2s). You can have a machine shop use the existing caps and rebore the mains or see if you can get lucky and try moving them around where hopefully you find them lining up. You will need an inside micrometer/telescoping gauge to verify they are perfectly round both at the splits and at 90 degrees. BTW being being misaligned forward or backward 1/8” isnt unusual or necessarily a problem (unless its the main with the thrust bearing) as the bores are usually wider than the bearing inserts.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,196
Likes: 387
From: Near Los Angeles
It is that engine. The crank was not polished after being ground.010. I can see machine lines on the journal surfaces. It was a bearing shredder. Anyway, I have a new crank.
The offset is alarming. I can't believe it was assembled like that. Jeez, no wonder it was hard to turn over the engine! no wonder the t. cover leaked! Ouch. I can understand shimming to get the proper bearing spec, but there is no horizontal possible, and two of there are 1/8" off horizontally!
If I find a nice efi, I may just buy the short block. I'll post some pix.
The offset is alarming. I can't believe it was assembled like that. Jeez, no wonder it was hard to turn over the engine! no wonder the t. cover leaked! Ouch. I can understand shimming to get the proper bearing spec, but there is no horizontal possible, and two of there are 1/8" off horizontally!
If I find a nice efi, I may just buy the short block. I'll post some pix.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
It is that engine. The crank was not polished after being ground.010. I can see machine lines on the journal surfaces. It was a bearing shredder. Anyway, I have a new crank.
The offset is alarming. I can't believe it was assembled like that. Jeez, no wonder it was hard to turn over the engine! no wonder the t. cover leaked! Ouch. I can understand shimming to get the proper bearing spec, but there is no horizontal possible, and two of there are 1/8" off horizontally!
If I find a nice efi, I may just buy the short block. I'll post some pix.
The offset is alarming. I can't believe it was assembled like that. Jeez, no wonder it was hard to turn over the engine! no wonder the t. cover leaked! Ouch. I can understand shimming to get the proper bearing spec, but there is no horizontal possible, and two of there are 1/8" off horizontally!
If I find a nice efi, I may just buy the short block. I'll post some pix.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,196
Likes: 387
From: Near Los Angeles
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yHzA7D5OG1N9Onov2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/u74JXvQjl3TlPl5v1
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,196
Likes: 387
From: Near Los Angeles
Caps are machined integral to the block. You cant add different caps and expect it to work withou remachining the bores. Sounds like the caps were mixed up with another block (why you have 2 #2s). You can have a machine shop use the existing caps and rebore the mains or see if you can get lucky and try moving them around where hopefully you find them lining up. You will need an inside micrometer/telescoping gauge to verify they are perfectly round both at the splits and at 90 degrees. BTW being being misaligned forward or backward 1/8” isnt unusual or necessarily a problem (unless its the main with the thrust bearing) as the bores are usually wider than the bearing inserts.
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Earth
In retrospect I should have listened to my gut when I walked in and it was dirty and there were engines/parts everywhere. I don't expect the shop to look like an operating room but there's a limit to all things. Tidiness and organization are definite visual clues for me now.
Anyway, here's hoping you're working with a competent machinist this time.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: South central, Minnesota
Machine shops shouldn't be an adventure but unless you deal with them a lot it's a roll of the dice. Improperly installed rod bearing on my first build lasted an hour before it started knocking. That was after they didn't deck the block as we discussed and I brought the short block back. I imagine they rushed when reassembling.
In retrospect I should have listened to my gut when I walked in and it was dirty and there were engines/parts everywhere. I don't expect the shop to look like an operating room but there's a limit to all things. Tidiness and organization are definite visual clues for me now.
Anyway, here's hoping you're working with a competent machinist this time.
In retrospect I should have listened to my gut when I walked in and it was dirty and there were engines/parts everywhere. I don't expect the shop to look like an operating room but there's a limit to all things. Tidiness and organization are definite visual clues for me now.
Anyway, here's hoping you're working with a competent machinist this time.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 415
Likes: 1
Pics aren’t all that clear since they don’t show the bore mating edges. When installed, there should be a smooth transition from the cap to the block inside the bore as they were (originally) machined together. If the 1/8” step you are referring to is there your hosed, and should probably have machine shop line bore it or get another block. There should be no use of shims underneath the caps either.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 29
From: Southern CA
I'm with fordman75, I build all my own motors and have my machine shop of 35+ years do only the machine work I can not do.
They are old school drag racers like myself and are very carful on detail.
Never had the cash or need to have others put a motor together for me. Remember when you do it yourself and it ain't right you don't have to go far to find the guy that screwed up.
They are old school drag racers like myself and are very carful on detail.
Never had the cash or need to have others put a motor together for me. Remember when you do it yourself and it ain't right you don't have to go far to find the guy that screwed up.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,196
Likes: 387
From: Near Los Angeles
Pics aren’t all that clear since they don’t show the bore mating edges. When installed, there should be a smooth transition from the cap to the block inside the bore as they were (originally) machined together. If the 1/8” step you are referring to is there your hosed, and should probably have machine shop line bore it or get another block. There should be no use of shims underneath the caps either.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,949
Likes: 6
From: Earth
Well, one nice thing about picking up a core engine is you'll have an extra crank, rods, bolts, hardware, etc. just in case. You can sell off the parts you don't use on ebay or cl later. Not sure what the core market is like in your area, though...
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,196
Likes: 387
From: Near Los Angeles
Can someone be so kind as to educate me a bit regarding bearings? I happened to see some King brand bearings, and was surprised to find they were shiny like stainless steel. I've always used Clevite 77 bearings, but the King bearings made me wonder....
OK, yes, I'll utilize Google.
OK, yes, I'll utilize Google.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 35
From: Kansas
Looking at the King bearing website, they sure make them look good. Perhaps if you shoot them an email, some of your questions can be answered.