Hey All,

I've recently pulled apart my 390 due to a ticking noise. Sounded like a lifter, valve or rocker tick to me. I have a few questions I hope someone can answer in regards to replacing them or fixing the noise. So far, the rocker arm assembly, push rods and valve springs all look good.

First off, do I need to take the lifters to a machine shop to have the hydraulic system tested? The bottoms of the lifters look to be in great condition, no abnormal wear.

Secondly, if one of the lifters is bad, should I replace them all? Or just the bad one?

Thirdly, if so, what are the procedures to installing new lifters? Can I just drop them in right out of the package and bolt it back together?

Thanks for helping me keep the old beast on the road.

Cheers

 

I m not a expert but if you have it apart I would replace all the lifters. New lifters need to be soaked in oil for a few outs before install.

 

I would also replace the cam while you are at it. Always use High Zinc oil moving forward.

 

What oil pressure do you have?

Ascertain you do not have an exhaust leak as a leak would sound the same as a collapsed/faulty lifter.

Does your valve train/rocker assembly/lifters have the correct preload?

.......You don't need a machine shop's evaluation of a lifter.....a waste of time. To what "Hydraulic system" are you referring?

.....And just looking a lifter's foot won't tell you much...unless it's really whacked out. You need to put a straight edge on its foot, hold it up to a light source and see where any light shines through. Light through the middle = cam and lifter replacement. Light through the sides (with a little rocking motion from the straightedge) = cam and lifter(s) are good...for the time being.


Lifter and cam are pooched.

Lifter and cam are still good.

 

A bad spring on the fuel pump arm will make a tick sound like a lifter. Something to look at if all is well in the valve train.

 

I dont have an oil pressure gauge, I have a light. I probably should invest in a gauge. I did notice I was running about a 1/2 quart low, not sure if that would cause a lifter to make noise.

I felt around and didn't feel any exhaust leaks, but I'll probably replace the header gaskets just to be safe.

I've never examined a lifter before, so I was curious if the hydraulic component of the "hydraulic lifter" could fail. I'll beck them with a straight edge tomorrow.

I'm not sure if it has the correct preload. Can you explain how to check this?

 

The hydraulic part of the lifter can indeed fail. It will cause a clattering in the valve train and be pretty obvious - you will be able to move the pushrod up and down freely.

After prelubing/soaking the lifters you install them and put the pushrods and rockers etc back in, then lash the rockers. Half a turn of preload from finger tight is generally the recommended amount.

Note: you need to preload the rockers in sequence. You can only do it when the respective valve is closed. Generally you can take the spark plugs out of the engine and turn it by hand to aid in this.

 

The OP should have rail rockers on his FE if it's stock. There's a different procedure for setting the "preload" here than individual rockers......unless a PO changed the set-up.

PINCHE002......you do have rail rockers, no? If you do, the torque specs for them are 40-45 ft lbs but in a specified sequence.

....And you do have a manual, no?

Let us know what you have.....

 

You'll get good advice from the others, and have already. But I wanted to touch on a couple of things. Especially because it sounds like your first dig this deep into an engine.

It's too late this go-round, but if you're ever in this situation again, a stethoscope (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) is a great diagnostic tool.
Unless there was pretty much a catastrophic failure, you'd have trouble ever "seeing" a lifter that's ticking lightly.
Is the engine driven much? How many miles? As said already, it could easily be just a tired lifter. Could just be dirty from too many miles and poor oil or overly hot running or whatever.

When I determine that there is a lifter ticking my first go-to solution is a can of oil additive with an oil change. If that doesn't reduce it while driving (takes some time to clean out the deposits) then you're only out the 5 bucks and a little extra time. But if it fixes it completely, like it often can, then your money was well spent and you can spend your time doing other things.

But you're in it now, so you get to replace all the lifters.
By the way, did you keep them all in the order in which they were removed? In other words, do you know which hole EVERY lifter you have came out of? If not, then there is no way in heck's tarnation that you're going to re-use your old lifters. Not a chance...

By the book, you're not even supposed to use new lifters on a well worn (old) cam. But in the real world you can often get away with it. Just don't ever use a new cam and old lifters.
Ever! Not worth the risk.

That's good news that they look good. Interested to see what your straigh-edge test reveals.
And as said, nope, no reason to take them to someone for testing. Doubt any shop has a fixture for that anyway. Maybe they do and I've never seen one, but new parts are cheaper than labor by a crap-ton in this case, so not worth it even if they can test them.

You can absolutely change just one. But with an engine this old (how old is it by the way?) the advice to change them all is good advice.
It's called cheap insurance at this point too. No reason to dig this deep and not do it. Like replacing a clutch and not resurfacing the flywheel or replacing the throwout bearing at the same time.

Sort of...
In case you're not aware, extreme care should be taken to keep everything clean. Not only the area on top of the engine where you're working, but the new lifters especially.
And since the cam lobe and lifter interface is probably one of, if not THE most high-stressed area inside an engine, cleanliness and lubliness is your road to success.
By that I mean even with the good soaking you give them (or whatever method of prelubing liftes you decide to use) make sure you lube the base of each one well.
I didn't hear anyone else say it, so maybe I'm into overkill, but I would use assembly lube on them. This is a pasty moly-lube that sticks to the lifters. Yes, it's primarily there to keep a brand new engine alive until lots of oil gets to them, but there is just as much chance of buggering a new lifter in an engine that's got oil in it as not I think. So some assembly lube would be, again, money well spent

After all, the lifters might get pressurized oil to keep them pumped up, but the cam lobe is oiled by "splash" only. Oil drips down from the top gallery, sprays out a bit from between the bearings and block, and from other stuff whipping oil around the crankcase, but this totally stressed area does not get direct oiling.
Unless the 390 is different from all the other engines I've played with? Could be, but don't take the chance.

And as was mentioned, high-zinc content oil for older flat-tappet cams like this is a good practice. Some say it's not necessary after the break-in, but I like the idea myself.

And speaking of the break-in... Which we weren't, but it's a good idea to ask.
I wonder how the experts feel about a second cam break-in for the new lifters?
During a new cam/lifter installation you must follow a very specific break-in procedure during the first start up. VERY IMPORTANT!
Many a new cam has been trashed by not following it, and I have always done it with new lifters too. But I don't know it was the only way to do it. Just that I didn't want to do it wrong, so maybe I over did it.
What do you all say about a "new lifter break-in" this go-round?

Good luck. Hope it goes smoothly for you.

Paul

 

"Old" cam, new lifters:

What I do with all new lifters is to take 'em apart, clean the drilling slag from the lifter oil hole then put 'em back together. Overkill? Mebbe....just a habit.
Then I squirt the oil I'd normally use through that hole so the oil comes out the pushrod cup. It then gets put in a plastic coffee can. Maxwell House or Folgers...I like 'em both...hehehe

After they're all done and standing up straight I shoot the cups again with the same oil.

For install on an "old" cam: Clean the foot/feet of the lifters...cover 'em with assembly goop and drop 'em in their new home. Oil on the sides - already there from setting in the container.

Adjust rockers/preload as necessary for that particular setup.

New lifter/old cam: The break in procedure is the same as installing a new cam/lifters/valve train, etc. Once started, keep the RPMs up to 1500 -2000 for 25 - 30 minutes.

No need to change the oil at this point as one is just marrying the new lifter to an existing, broke in lobe.


Forgot to ask...how many miles on this puppy? Reason for asking: On older engines like ours, with a gazillion miles on 'em, a few face lifts and ~ 100 K miles since the last one, a noise like you're experiencing could be the result of worn pushrod to rocker alignment. Since you have it apart - I hope you kept the parts together...the rockers with the pushrods with the lifters, etc, - you could check the mating surfaces of the rockers to pushrods. The oiling hole match-up is what I'm after.

If, perchance, there's some significant wear, the oiling holes might not match up...then causing the "tick" you're hearing. On your FE, do you have any oiling restrictors (Holley jets) in the heads?