Agree that the paint issues are ridiculous. Ford has probably lost many customers who had these paint bubbling problems on Expy's, Mustangs, and Explorers, And since the problem appeared on the all-new 2011 Explorer, Ford did not seem to have a chemical engineer spend a day on the issue and correct it.

In Consumer Reports new April Cars issue, the Expy has excellent reliability scores, but going back 2-3 years, "paint" is big red mark on Expy's, Mustangs, and Explorers. Stupid...

 

I sometimes get the feeling that manufacturers don't care if they keep a customer happy or not, as long as they can save more repairing some vehicles that fixing the problem during the build process. For every customer a manufacturer looses they pick up another one from a different company that ticked off their customer with shoddy quality.

 

...or they just go to Honda or Toyota. I just took my wife's '07 Civic thru the car wash just now to celebrate her crossing 150,000 miles. In the almost 11 years we have owned it, it had ONE air conditioning problem (a compressor at 125k miles) and otherwise has had fluid changes, tires, brakes, and wiper blades. I keep offering to buy her a new car but she loves the Civic and I can't come up with a really good reason she should not keep it (although it does not have stability control, crash detection, and some of the new safety stuff I'd like her to have). Why the hell can't Ford build a Focus this good? The Civic was imported from Ohio...

 

Honda & Toyota both have had similar issue...looking specifically at Toyota, back in 1986 they were involved deeply in a insurance fraud scam of their own choosing in partners with GM......personal experience....and let's not forget about the "Sudden accel issue" that cost many people their lives (despite it not making the news, NASA who was requested by the USDOT to assist in the ECM forensics did identify the root cause) and Honda has had their fair share of class action suits.....

Defective Paint
Honda Defective Paint Class Action Lawsuit

Engine Mis-fire
Honda Engine Misfire Class Action Lawsuit Settlement

Faulty sun visors
Client Settlement Site > Home

Engine oil burning
http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...-burning-claim

Defective brakes
Honda Brake Class Action Lawsuit Acura Brake Lawsuit Girard Gibbs LLP

Accord- Oil Burning
Honda Unit Agrees To Settle Accord Defect Class Action - Law360

Malfunctioning locks
Class action lawsuit filed against Honda over lock malfunctions
Atlanta News, Weather, Traffic and Sports | WSB-TV

 

I prefer buying American brand cars, grew up in a Detroit UAW family, and pick and choose carefully among makes and models that do not have known problems. The discussion was originally about Expedition paint oxidation, which Ford has failed to correct for 15 years despite knowing that it's a problem. They seem to lack the corporate ability to deal with a basic build process problem and have lost customers because of it.

I am on this forum because I like Fords, have owned many since 1978, and am waiting for the new Bronco and considering other models. The Expy is too large for me although I like them a lot and *could* stretch and buy one. But I am OCD enough to be bothered by silly paint problems on a $50-60k vehicle.

Some of the links in your canned "anti Honda/Toyota" speech don't work and I can do Internet searches on my own, thanks. 2008-2010 Honda models where *some* cars wore out rear brake pads is quite a stretch to try to condemn Honda. Sun visor problems??? How about Ford V8's blowing out spark plugs? A good friend of mine is a retired Ford engineer and his elderly parents got really sick of Fords because of continued major problems and now buy Hondas.... And I have GM engineer friends who buy Hondas and Toyotas for their family members. It makes me sad because I would prefer buying and recommending domestic brand names.

 

Actually most of these were not from a google search but I used a class action site for the search........ with some criteria....point being, every car mfg because of the value systems their execs at the time establish, have issues....... none are exempt.....take Mercedes, in the 90's they took pre-payments on a new supercar......IIRR, they were about $500k each..... and were suppose to be electronic wonders of technology...upon delivery, 100% systems failure...... entertainment, hvac,, etc.....MB after hearing about the complaints for 6 months and unable to fix their overly terrible engineering design, took the cars back and gave the owners a 500 series IIRR car as a loaner while they fixed their own cars.....about a year later as the owners are now getting ticked, MB gives them their cars back with all "fancy gagets" gutted and replaced by manual controls......... mad, beyond belief...the owners assembled the foundation for a class action suit....MB eventally surrendered, and sent the owners a check for the lost value, etc....... heck, they are even right now involved in what is becoming a world wide (soon to be litigated imho) squeeling brake issue on their new AMG model.... it's louder than the entertainment system inside the car...and MB is just telling everyone who complains....it's driving style......for a few I'm sure, but, the majority I doubt are causing this as a result of their "foot" so to speak.

As far as Honda specially goes, I was retained a few years ago as a consultant (impact assessment) specifically for Honda.....I spent my 1st day in Gardena, California at both their division and corporate (NA) headquarters meeting with c-level (except the President) and operations level staff (including their racing group in Santa Clarita or Santa Clara, California IIRR...that's where they have the full computer simulator for their formula 1 cars (engines, suspension, driver values, etc.)..... now don't get me wrong here the Honda engines are very good pieces of engineering and manufacturing, but, each operation group (at that time) were so incredibly fractured as far as inter-communication goes, imminent failures were not just potential, they were pronounced...as an example, for many of their cars, etc. they had built a new auto tranny.....of course the auto tranny engineers had no contact once they started with the engine engineers, and when it was decided by c-level that they would be incorporating many of the acura engine performance into the new Hondas...well, there was no reason the auto trans guys needed to know this......of course as typical with many mfgs today, the tranny was built just good enough to handle the existing powerplants, their fix for the new powerplants.......change the shift patterns so the engine never has a chance to produce that power level....the CRV is an excellent example of this.........despite it's hp/tq stats, the tranny shift pattern will not allow the engine to rev above 4500 rpm (with few exceptions), so the engine really cannot deliver the stated power...... The then VP was the 1st female c-level exec, and was facing issues that well, no organization should see...aside from "value systems" that should not be reflected in a modern society, their whole concept of mgt literally held back and stifled what should be their "greatest champions"....an example...in gardena, there are several buildinsg of which most are corporate but a few are "owned' by their divisions/groups....... while they have a safety engineer (osha type) who is there and conducts their audits/site inspections, the one building this gent is not allowed into (it's a shipping warehouse)...and they actually fly a person out from the east to do their monthly, quarterly, annual inspections/audit.......why, because it doesn't belong to corporate. Currently, Honda outsources much of it's critical staff (especially advance IT technologies- and I'm not referring to design engineers, I talking core type positions) and the outsourcing is typically 3 fold.....ie...we will outsource to company A, who will outsource it's management, who will outsource it's staff........IMHO, insane for critical operations that could literally shut down world-wide operations.

I'm know I am kinda getting off track here with the thread and apologize......but just wanted to clarify that I don't have it out for any mfg, etc., just that everyone goes through periods of champion type deliverable and then goes through failures.

 

Well that's a lot of words and has nothing to do with bad paint on Expedition, Mustang, and Explorer hoods and tailgates which IMO is a really stupid problem to have on a continuing basis for 15 years and which is the primary topic being discussed. I like Fords. I like Hondas. Being a Detroiter from a UAW household I would prefer buying Fords. Some of them have issues and I avoid buying cars that have a likelihood of issues.

I regret that I brought up Honda because it has nothing to do with Ford's problems and pointing at other brands is also NOT an excuse for 15 year long flaws in Ford's production processes. It is a false equivalency. Ford should know better and do better, period.

I understand the stupidity of many corporate decisions by corporations of all kinds--often driven by bean counters over the protests of engineers. Ford has a TSB on how to properly prepare the oxidized area of their panels before a repaint. Why would they not incorporate this on the assembly line? (cost most likely)

 

Actually this thread is all about the ecoboost and has nothing to do with paint at all. Paint was brought up because Tylus has paint issues on a Ford when he was stationed in Pearl harbor. He then migrated to GM because Ford treated him like crap. I remember all of his threads and issues from years ago.

I have a 2004 expy that is Toredor Red. I bought it new. I live in SE Virginia where the climate is brutal to a car's finish. We have salt air, brutal heat and high humidity. So after nearly 14 years, I have some fading on my Expy but no other paint issues.

In contrast i had a 1995 T-bird that was paint a Camelion Blue. This was a Pearl paint and would flip flop depending on the type of light that hit the car's surface. The clear coat failed, Ford repainted the clear and the Pearl effect failed. So, I'm well vested in how frustrating a failed paint finish can be.

Unless some hack paints a car out doors and not in a controlled booth, I can see no reason why a paint failure should or would happen unless the car builder was totally negligent like Ford, GM, Chryco and all the other car builders clearly are.

As for the ecoboost, the engine and transmission combo has brought this dinosaur back to life but in Ford's typical fashion, they still only offer one engine choice. The 5.0L should have been an option.

 

Whoa, didn't mean to cause a derail. Just was browsing for data on the reliability of the ecoboost. there was a damn good reason I spent $55k on a Tahoe instead of a Expy in 2014. Looking to see if the tides had shifted
I bought my 2008 with no data and had a few trans problems that took Ford about 1yr to figure out. Was just wondering if similar is still occuring

All that said, Dealership sold a 2016 EL out from underneath me, and I'm having problems finding another EL in my area

 

OP wanted info on Expy problems, particularly with the EB but I brought up the paint problem and was thanked for the info.

I have been looking at used Expys for the last 5 years and 90% of them that I see that are more than 2 years old have paint bubbling on the hood and tailgate edges and around the license plate. I saw the beginnings of bubbling on a NEW 2017 leftover Expy that was produced in late 2016 as recently as 2 months ago when I looked under the hood. There were white oxidation particles and the beginning of bubbling at the edge of the crimp under the hood. On the optional metallic red paint which otherwise looked gorgeous. And every used 2014-2015 Expy I have seen has major bubbling issues on the hood and bottom tailgate seam. (They changed the trim around the license plate in 2015 to better cover some of the areas where oxidation starts on the 2014 and earlier models.) I am in salty Detroit and am guessing that the bubble-free Expys may have spent their lives down South and came here after being bought at auction.

If you look at the TSB, there is some kind of iron particle contamination that gets under the paint and there is a process using specific primers after getting down to bare metal that will prevent this oxidation from returning on a repaint. But since 2017 was the final year for the old body style, that problem clearly continued thru the end of that model run despite Ford issuing the TSB and knowing darn well how to prevent the problem. Road salt in Detroit seems to make the problem worse but the problem is buried under the paint.

I am the position of buying myself a new DD if I feel like it and the seat comfort in an Expy works really well for my bad back but I refuse to spend $30k plus on a used Expy which is already oxidizing or $48k plus on a new leftover 2017 (I REALLY wanted that red one) which is doomed to have the oxidation problem so it is a particular sore spot with me.

 

 

 

Interesting because I have not seen any major internet complaints about the Navigator. I checked the Consumer Reports car issues for Nav paint problems and they do not even show the Nav, probably because there are so few of them.... What you are looking for is bubbling which starts on the front seam of the hood and bottom seam of the tailgate. It seems to start on the inside of the crimped outer skin first, or at the edge of the crimp line (open the hood or tailgate to look).

It then travels to the outer edges of those seams. You are looking for any little bubbles in the paint which will eventually spread and the paint will flake off. Mustangs and 2011+ Explorers also have the hood issue at least. And on the Expy, it seems like bubbles form around the license plate area in random clusters, more likely at the edge of attached trim pieces. If there are even a couple tiny bubbles inside or out, you can count on the problem growing and/or appearing in other areas. If you go to a Ford dealer and start looking at Expys, Mustangs, and 2011+ Explorers, you should see many cases of this problem.

It is possible that the Nav has some additional preparation, thicker paint, or some other factor that makes this problem less prevalent, along with more likelihood that owners drive fewer miles, garage them more, etc.

Here is a FTE thread that shows a REALLY bad Expy tailgate which shows a really advanced case of this oxidation on an '03 Expy (thread started by owner of an '06 but pic is of an '03). Still makes me angry that Ford let this problem continue for 14 years after '03....thru the end of that whole model run. I do not want to mention other brands, but it has been my experience that when automakers have common problems, they often change *something* to fix that problem after it shows up as being common. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...te-rust-2.html