2002 excursion starting hard
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,296
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From: freeland, mi
2002 excursion starting hard
After a road trip my wife's excursion is starting hard. It didn't want to start at all so I swapped the cps from the glove box. Now it starts but you have a excessive crank time to get it to go. When we were on the road trip we did get a p1211 code. I swapped the icp with a spare I have and no change. One thing that puzzles me some is when I unplug the icp while running it stalls instantly. I believe it should stay running and go to the default setting. Am I wrong on that? Let me know what direction to go from here if anyone has any ideas. Thanks
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
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From: Texas
The 1280 showed up because someone unplugged the ICP sensor. No worries there.
Truck should not stall with the sensor unplugged. Sounds like when it switched to the default reading, it caused the IPR to move back to where it was supposed to be. My guess it was closer to the max % side and struggling to keep the oil supplied. Start by checking oil level, make sure it's not overdue for a change, and make sure the tin nut is snug on the back of the IPR.
That or the possibility of an electrical short / chaffed wires on the ICP sensor or the IPR.
How does it run once it does get started.
Truck should not stall with the sensor unplugged. Sounds like when it switched to the default reading, it caused the IPR to move back to where it was supposed to be. My guess it was closer to the max % side and struggling to keep the oil supplied. Start by checking oil level, make sure it's not overdue for a change, and make sure the tin nut is snug on the back of the IPR.
That or the possibility of an electrical short / chaffed wires on the ICP sensor or the IPR.
How does it run once it does get started.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: freeland, mi
Oil level is good and only a couple thousand since changed. Seems to run normal once started but I haven't run it down the road yet, just drove it around my property(50 acres so plenty of room) but I am thinking of running it down the road today. Before changing the cps I noticed no tach movement when cranking which is why I changed it. IPR readings on my scangauge were around 30 at idle if I remember correct and when I was driving it never seemed to get above 65 if I remember right. But the pic seemed low when you were under throttle also. 385 at idle seems low also.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Texas
Tack won't move on an 02 model until the engine starts, so that trick doesn't work. But the scanner can monitor rpm's while cranking for you.
Around 65% is about max for a truck without a chip. 30% at idle is kind of high. It's usually a little higher at start up, but should drop down to around 15% at idle. My guess is driving around and pushing the skinny pedal to the floor you're not going to have as much power as you should. Sounds like a leak on the high pressure oil side or a weak HPOP (which is rare unless it happens to be a reman one, then it seems fairly common for some reason).
Around 65% is about max for a truck without a chip. 30% at idle is kind of high. It's usually a little higher at start up, but should drop down to around 15% at idle. My guess is driving around and pushing the skinny pedal to the floor you're not going to have as much power as you should. Sounds like a leak on the high pressure oil side or a weak HPOP (which is rare unless it happens to be a reman one, then it seems fairly common for some reason).
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: freeland, mi
I'll see if I can get better IPR readingsthat are more definite. The hpop was replaced two years ago before we owned it. We've put 30000 miles on it. I agree on the high pressure oil leak. I will try to further diagnose. Tonight I'm dealing with a no start on my truck. It appears to be a crank no smoke issue. So that appears to be fuel related. Damn things are f#%king with me. Lol
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: freeland, mi
Well back,after this, the conclusion we've come to is a bad hpop. Won't make over 950 icp and IPR runs at max 65 all the time while your running down the road. We're using a snap on modis scanner to retrieve our data. I'm assuming the previous owner did use a reman hpop when they replaced it two years ago. Probably one from autozone or napa or something because she had a non diesel local shop replace it. Any opinions on this before I order a hpop?
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Lead Driver
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From: In the field...
As mentioned previously I would go with an Adrenaline HPOP from Irate Diesel Performance others mentioned CNC.
Keep us posted on the outcome.
Keep us posted on the outcome.
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Tuned
Joined: Mar 2016
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Well back,after this, the conclusion we've come to is a bad hpop. Won't make over 950 icp and IPR runs at max 65 all the time while your running down the road. We're using a snap on modis scanner to retrieve our data. I'm assuming the previous owner did use a reman hpop when they replaced it two years ago. Probably one from autozone or napa or something because she had a non diesel local shop replace it. Any opinions on this before I order a hpop?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: freeland, mi
I would agree, I question if the hpop is bad at this point myself. What should the coil ohm out to? I have a good IPR in my tool box I was thinking of trying. One question though. If the IPR is bad why does it appear to be working per the scanner and changing percentage as needed to keep,the high pressure oil supplied. They just don't either work or not work? I'm only asking to learn. Th nut is tight I did check that. It's pretty damn cold here and it doesent fit inside so I'll see if I can check some of this stuff. This is why I asked before I ordered. I did this on a 6.0 I had where a ford mechanic looked at it for me and said my hpop was bad and it ends up being a nipple cup o ring.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2016
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The mechanical part of the IPR valve can be hanging up so it shows 65% but the spool isn't moving that much. The resistance of the IPR coil should be around 9.5 Ohms. Also if the coil is weak or the wiring is compromised then you still won't be actuating the valve as much as the PCM says you are. I would try the new IPR and do a pressure test of the HPO rails with compressed air before I ordered a HPOP.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Texas
Assuming you don't have a bunch of oil in your fuel filter, and you don't have a bunch of oil bubbling up from around an injector indicating an HPO leak, then the weak reman HPOP could very well be the culprit.
For the stock option, a new Bosch has been the most reliable over the years, but I will add the last Bosch water pump I bought didn't visually seem to be up to par with the previous ones I had bought.
For remans, Terminator and Dieselsite have been in the game the longest. Others have come along recently with good reviews as well.
For the stock option, a new Bosch has been the most reliable over the years, but I will add the last Bosch water pump I bought didn't visually seem to be up to par with the previous ones I had bought.
For remans, Terminator and Dieselsite have been in the game the longest. Others have come along recently with good reviews as well.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2016
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Please explain how oil can end up in the filter housing on a deadheaded fuel system. The fuel that leaves the filter housing never goes back to the housing. So unless that HPO leak is pushing the fuel all the way back up the fuel lines to the filter I don't see how you can have oil in your filter housing. I know the pressure is higher on the oil side but I would think you would have to have a large leak to overcome the fuel being used and make it back to the filter.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
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From: Texas
Oil pressure can run up to 3,000 psi in the head. Fuel pressure can run up to around 70 psi in the head. Even at idle the oil is around 500 psi in the head.
Those kind of pressure differentials means it's rather easy for oil to travel backwards up through the fuel lines. Especially since the fuel bowl has a pressure relief valve (FPR) built into the side of it to dump excess volume or pressure.
Those kind of pressure differentials means it's rather easy for oil to travel backwards up through the fuel lines. Especially since the fuel bowl has a pressure relief valve (FPR) built into the side of it to dump excess volume or pressure.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: freeland, mi
Excursion has no oil in fuel bowl. Unfortunately I can't say the same for my truck. I'm going to swap the ipr as soon as I get a chance just because it looks easy and I have one. I'm pretty sure I'll either be getting a pump from cnc or diesel site if I need one. Crazy thing is I may need two one for the truck and one for the excursion. Wonder if I can get a quantity discount lol.