For anyone living in really cold climates, then waiting out the entire glow plug cycle on battery power alone may deplete your batteries to the point of not being able to crank the engine.


This reason alone justifies the continued search for a more elegant and automated voltage control solution for the glow plugs to finish their cycle following engine crank, so that the batteries have enough juice left to start in minus 20 degrees.

 

Still not a problem.

Have the tuning party of choice decrease the "burn time" of the glow plugs. It's a simple matter as a lot of people have no problems starting their engines by simply waiting for the light to go out (which is usually a matter of only about 10 seconds even on the coldest days).

As I said before, my own junk runs 30 seconds maximum for any temperature and less than factory time for all other temperature points. I usually wait a little longer than the light before actually cranking but I know that my glow plugs are not on for 2 minutes for no reason. I don't mind a little extra haze on cold mornings.

 

 

 

Just so we are clear here, confirm or deny my thoughts below.

1. Turning the key to ON and waiting for the glow plug relay to stop supplying power to the glow plugs before turning the key to START does not reset the timer on the glow plugs.

2. Once the truck is started, as long as the glow plug relay was not supplying power to the glow plugs, the glow plug relay will remain open and not supplying power to the glow plugs.

3. The glow plug relay will supply power to the glow plugs based on a variable amount of time. Just because someone is starting their truck first thing in the morning in Texas does not mean they will have to wait 2 minutes for the light to turn off.

4. The varying time (unless set in Hydra tuning) will be different based on previous run cycles within a short period and engine oil temperature.

5. People in GA may have to wait 15 seconds before starting the truck, while people in ME may have to wait 2 minutes before starting the truck in order to eliminate the afterglow issue.

Yesterday was a crappy day for me, so this only compounded my crappy day. I do in fact really hate making something worse when trying to make it better though. Although, if I can install a simple $2 LED light and keep the 160 Amp alternator, then I am good with that. Coincidentally, the PO of my truck had installed an alarm and had an LED light just to the left of the steering column on the bezel. I removed that crap just after buying the truck and have had a small 1/4" hole there. This is a perfect location for me to install a LED light (probably orange) off the GPR and just sit and ponder life and the meaning of it while the glowplugs do their thing. When they are done having their party in the cylinder, I will fire up the truck and roll on out.

I am hoping to be 100% retired within the next 6 months and enjoying 6 Saturdays and 1 Sunday out of the week, so waiting for the LED to go out will not be a problem.

 

#5...I have never seen the light stay on that short of time for the first crank of the day. Probably more like 45 sec to ponder life.

 

I am good with that too. Was using 15 seconds as an example and to clearly differentiate it between the 2 minute maximum.

45 seconds, well I can open the door and turn the key to on. Load the dogs, close the tailgate, whatever and then start the truck once the GPR LED goes out. Hell, I usually wait 30 seconds or so anyway just on a guess, and as I stated earlier I don't like guessing at anything if I can help it.

Good work fellas!

Now the big brains and engineers can step in and figure out an automated or hands off way to limit the voltage or time to the GP's. The Hydra tuning is an option, but I don't know how responsive tuners would be to the request based on some of their responses that we are seeing from FTE members.

 

Two times now I have spun the key, gone and got stuff out of the garage and come back to start the truck. I had been gone longer than the time out period for the GPR and when I turned the key I got a no start. Cycled the key to reactivate the glow plugs and about 15 seconds later one of the glow plugs lit up the mixture in the combustion chamber of the cylinder that was sitting with valves closed. It may or may not be harmless but I didn't like it.

 

Mark, you received a "no start" because the engine was cranking, but would not fire up?

What is the temperature at your location this morning?

15 seconds into the 3rd glow plug cycle fuel was ignited because of the glow plug?

 

It's warm here today, those were cold days like below freezing. I flipped key, went to garage, came back and cranked, turned over, no start,
glow plug heat was gone already. Cycle key off and back on and in about 15 second 'pop' under the hood, brown shorts club. Let glow plugs time out (volt meter in cig lighter socket) and start up, no problems.

 

IMO, this is making a minor mountain out of a mole hill. The talk about GP life being limited...what is limited? Are we talking 6 start cycles or 20,000? Guys have been putting in bigger alternators for a long time, I would think if this was a HUGE issue there would be 1000's of threads warning about a bigger alternator. The 160 amp alternator isn't making that amperage at idle anyway. I'm curious about the regulator in the alternator and the amperage it puts out at idle...when GP function is an issue. I'm NOT berating anyone for considering that this may be a concern just trying to think practically about it.
Everyone has to make their own decision regarding this but I just don't see this being a huge issue worthy of panic. s

 

I have to agree with you completely on this, John, and it is based on my own 7 years (and approximately 100K miles of daily driving) of running a 160 amp alternator with secondary cabling to the DS battery through an external bridge rectifier.

Of those 7 years, the first 4 were on the original GP's and GPR. When I changed the GP's and GPR 3 years ago, there was no sign of excessive overheat or any bulging or any other damage on the tips of any of the GP's. Since then, I'm seeing no signs of GP failure and am still driving the truck every day, though fewer daily miles than before for the last two years.

More context for my situation which I believe has helped me "survive" the higher amp alternator. When I flip the switch to WTS, my A/C or Heater is always ON, my headlights come on automatically at the same time, as does my stock stereo. I ALWAYS wait until the WTS light goes out before starting the truck, and generally am in the middle of getting my seat belt on and GPS started up on my phone, so the actual starting does not generally take place until a good 5-20 seconds has passed AFTER the WTS light goes out. I start the truck, and let it idle until I hear the monster Stancor GPR relay click off (it's hard mounted on my passenger side fender, so the OFF is more like a very noticeable "thunk" than a "click". Once the GPR is off, I may sit another 10 seconds to two minutes, depending on the weather and how much frost there is on the windshield.

During the times when I was chasing a bad battery and watching a plugged in voltmeter (@ cigarette lighter), I saw my voltage come up to 14+ volts somewhat quickly, but it took anywhere from 30 seconds to a full minute for the voltage to fully recover to 14.2-14.4v.

That's my story, and why I really don't think that my GP's are at risk with the higher amp alternator.

That said, I can see the points of concern which Y2K have brought up, and I expect that there can be other scenarios where the higher amp alternator may pose a risk to the GP life... but by how much is still quite a big variable as well as quite a big unknown.

 

Pete, in a fight between anecdotal evidence and logical/empirical evidence, anecdotal loses every time. Anecdotal arguments go like this: "I've smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day for 70 years and I never got lung cancer. Therefore, smoking cigarettes don't cause lung cancer."

 

I have that too. It's from the dealer installed Ford anti-theft module. I removed the entire module during my current injector project. I had plans for that opening by installing a dome override switch in the circuit so I don't have to wait 10 minutes for the interior lights to go out with the doors open. Now I have to consider a glow plug LED for my GPCM although I think it's a safe bet if I wait a minute or so after I turn the key to ON before I start it that the GP cycle will be done. Maybe there IS a benefit to living is SoCal.

 

"Discretion" may be "the better part of valor", but sometimes a thing just needs to be said in plain English. What's your point, Andy?

In my post above, I certainly don't mean to in any way minimize or refute the concerns raised by Y2K. But I honestly do get a sense that the situation is not as dire as it seems to be coming across. If my comments appear to be dismissive, though, let me clarify.

Y2K has documented everything to show the science behind the concern, and I don't argue with any of that. As he always does, his documentation and attention to applicable detail is amazing and highly informative. At the same time, though, when tons of highly detailed information is compiled together, the situation being addressed can appear to be bigger than it really is because there are often many variables involved which can alter how a scenario plays out in the real world (high amp alternator impacting GP life, in this case). Saying that does not discount the facts behind the analysis... it siply tries to balance the analysis with a larger view of the entire situation overall.

My previous post only addressed the conditions under which my engine starts every day (extra load immediately being placed on the electrical system through headlights, stereo, and A/C/heater, coupled with how I have wired the alternator to the system and impose intentional delays in going from WTS to turning over the engine)... and goes further to say it has all added up to the fact that utilizing some of the strategies promoted by Y2K (and others) is working well for me... or so it seems, anyway. The real point to all of my post is that my observed ramping of voltage on the voltmeter during and after startup seems to be in agreement that imposing extra delay and startup load does in fact seem to help mitigate the potential for cooking the GP's with a high amp alternator.

In other words, in the real world where everyone is doing things differently with their trucks, I don't believe that it is a situation where all high amp alternators will destroy the GP's in the truck in which they are installed. Do I believe that the high amp alternators can cause damage? Yes, but again, not every time in every truck.

THAT said, I still like the concept of somehow restricting the voltage being directly fed to the relay as an ultimate and idiot-proof solution. God knows that I need idiot-proof solutions much more often than I would like to admit!!