Rear brake issue.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 363
Likes: 15
From: west central wisconsin
Rear brake issue.
Posted this in the brake section but got no response. Have a 1997 E250 it's a 4x4 with rear drum brakes.
Problem is the rear brakes will drag and lock up the rear tires once driven 5-10 miles and they get warmed up. Works great when cold and first starting out. Nice firm pedal.
No dash warning lights on, warm or cold.
New brake lines, front and rear.
New rubber lines front and rear.
New wheel cylinders.
New brake pads.
New not a rebuild master. Bled correctly, numerous times.
Adjusted push rod on master.
New springs installed on rear pads.
Adjusted pads tight to loose.
Anti seized the contact points between shoes and back plate.
Emergency brake cables disconnected.
Acts like the pressure isn't releasing completely after the brakes are used a few times. Brakes will tighten up but it takes over night for them to release. BOTH SIDES on rear, front is fine. WTF am I missing.
Thanks for any help.
Problem is the rear brakes will drag and lock up the rear tires once driven 5-10 miles and they get warmed up. Works great when cold and first starting out. Nice firm pedal.
No dash warning lights on, warm or cold.
New brake lines, front and rear.
New rubber lines front and rear.
New wheel cylinders.
New brake pads.
New not a rebuild master. Bled correctly, numerous times.
Adjusted push rod on master.
New springs installed on rear pads.
Adjusted pads tight to loose.
Anti seized the contact points between shoes and back plate.
Emergency brake cables disconnected.
Acts like the pressure isn't releasing completely after the brakes are used a few times. Brakes will tighten up but it takes over night for them to release. BOTH SIDES on rear, front is fine. WTF am I missing.
Thanks for any help.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 131
From: Maryville
Sounds to me like the rubber hose connecting the lines going to the rear axle has collapsed, I've had it happen on a front wheel before, replaced the caliper thinking it was the problem. You can not see it from the outside, but the inner walls collapse, trapping the fluid from draining back, the pedal has sufficient pressure to force it through, it just can't come back on it's on, but will bleed off over time.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 699
Likes: 5
From: S. Illinois
May sound wierd, but I once had a dodge van, that would lock the brakes up and not release...it turned out to be the cross bolt holding the pedal assembly, rusted and was binding up the pedal. Didn't feel it when driven.
I found it when i pressed the pedal by hand and noticed it wouldn't return to the full driving position.
a good shot penetrating oil and lube fixed it.
I found it when i pressed the pedal by hand and noticed it wouldn't return to the full driving position.
a good shot penetrating oil and lube fixed it.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 363
Likes: 15
From: west central wisconsin
Changed the rubber lines already, new front and rear. Suppose I could have gotten a defective one.
Check and oiled the pedal. Used a square and the pedal returns to the same spot/height. Took it for a ride no change.
Running out of ideas and hate to just swap out new parts.
Check and oiled the pedal. Used a square and the pedal returns to the same spot/height. Took it for a ride no change.
Running out of ideas and hate to just swap out new parts.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 699
Likes: 5
From: S. Illinois
Maybe the springs are the wrong tension strength?
Did this just start recently?
What about a bad master cyl not letting the fluid back thru or the proportioning valve? maybe some rust/corrosion?
I
Did this just start recently?
What about a bad master cyl not letting the fluid back thru or the proportioning valve? maybe some rust/corrosion?
I
Last edited by wiskeyVI; Nov 21, 2017 at 05:36 PM. Reason: another thought
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,677
Likes: 172
well don't cont on new parts working like they should. have had lots of trouble with that. Anymore I try to search the net and buy motorcraft parts.
since it is both sides on the rear, unless you assembled something wrong and copied on the other side, it is unlikely the problem is something you did wrong with the rear brakes themselves unless like WiskeyVI said, something is wrong with the hardware
I think Maples is talking about the rubber line that goes from the hard line on the frame to the rear axle before it splits off to each side.
Would look like this: (double check part number and fitment) Ford Motorcraft BRHR6 OEM Econoline Rear Brake Flex Hose 6C2Z-2282-M Factory
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Motorc...38.m2548.l4275
Not sure if your master cylinder pressure regulator control valve would cause the problem or not but you might want to check into that also.. I know they cold cause problems on older cars with a different style valve.
Again make sure to double check part number and fitment.
OEM NEW Brake Master Cylinder Pressure Regulator Control Valve F6TZ-9B076-AA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-NEW-Bra...4383.l4275.c10
since it is both sides on the rear, unless you assembled something wrong and copied on the other side, it is unlikely the problem is something you did wrong with the rear brakes themselves unless like WiskeyVI said, something is wrong with the hardware
I think Maples is talking about the rubber line that goes from the hard line on the frame to the rear axle before it splits off to each side.
Would look like this: (double check part number and fitment) Ford Motorcraft BRHR6 OEM Econoline Rear Brake Flex Hose 6C2Z-2282-M Factory
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Motorc...38.m2548.l4275
Not sure if your master cylinder pressure regulator control valve would cause the problem or not but you might want to check into that also.. I know they cold cause problems on older cars with a different style valve.
Again make sure to double check part number and fitment.
OEM NEW Brake Master Cylinder Pressure Regulator Control Valve F6TZ-9B076-AA
https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-NEW-Bra...4383.l4275.c10
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 363
Likes: 15
From: west central wisconsin
I just got done with complete brake system rebuild. Had no issues before brakes worked great. Just noticed rusty brake lines and a small leak on one wheel cylinder. So I went through replaced everything for safety reasons.
Springs where replaced and no difference.
Rubber flex line was replaced with new Napa part. With the rusty steel lines I wasn't going to leave a dry rotted rubber line.
I'm going to replace the new rubber line and the rear shoes with Motorcraft parts, out of desperation. Have a pressure control valve and will put that in being I'll have to bleed the thing for the 20th time and see what happens.
Springs where replaced and no difference.
Rubber flex line was replaced with new Napa part. With the rusty steel lines I wasn't going to leave a dry rotted rubber line.
I'm going to replace the new rubber line and the rear shoes with Motorcraft parts, out of desperation. Have a pressure control valve and will put that in being I'll have to bleed the thing for the 20th time and see what happens.
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Elder User
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 545
Likes: 1
From: Bedford, Va
I'm no expert but I'm leaning toward a brake return spring anchored in the wrong place or perhaps a spring too long or weak. Drum brakes work with a camming assist and if not retracted from the drum would be prone to staying engaged.
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 363
Likes: 15
From: west central wisconsin
Just changed the pressure regulator on the side of the new master cylinder and of course, NO change.
At this point everything has been replaced with new parts. Master cylinder all the way back to the shoes. With no change, rear brakes will still lock up after a few uses. Most replaced out of suspicion looking for an answer.
WHAT NEXT??
At this point everything has been replaced with new parts. Master cylinder all the way back to the shoes. With no change, rear brakes will still lock up after a few uses. Most replaced out of suspicion looking for an answer.
WHAT NEXT??
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 363
Likes: 15
From: west central wisconsin
Upper spring is the same on both ends. Can't be installed wrong.
Hold down pins are actually a hooked rod from the backing plate with a curled spring and hooked end from the shoe. Doesn't have a pin "through" a hole in the shoes like most. Yes they are in place.
Lower spring will only go in one way without interfering with the adjuster.
Pretty hard to get anything out of place. Nothing has changed since swapping them with the old to new. No problem before I started the "repair".
Hold down pins are actually a hooked rod from the backing plate with a curled spring and hooked end from the shoe. Doesn't have a pin "through" a hole in the shoes like most. Yes they are in place.
Lower spring will only go in one way without interfering with the adjuster.
Pretty hard to get anything out of place. Nothing has changed since swapping them with the old to new. No problem before I started the "repair".
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,677
Likes: 172
I remember changing rotors and pads on a truck once and with the pads in the caliper and the piston depressed all the way, the pad were just too tight on the rotor. I was told I had to have the new rotors turned because the replacement pads and rotors were thicker then stock pads. I know we are talking about drum brakes but just wondering if it could in any way apply to your situation? Maybe there isn't enough clearance...
BTW I have never had that same problem since the job on that truck.
BTW I have never had that same problem since the job on that truck.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,677
Likes: 172
BTW you have ABS I guess.. do you think you might have a problem with the ABS system causing them to lock up?
One more thought.. Jack up the rear, start the engine, put it in gear and work the brakes to see if you can get the brakes to lock up. If they do, go loosen a bleeder valve one one of the rear wheels and see if there is pressure in the system...
You might try pumping the brakes a few times without driving the van to simulate what you do when driving then check he bleeders for pressure.
One more thought.. Jack up the rear, start the engine, put it in gear and work the brakes to see if you can get the brakes to lock up. If they do, go loosen a bleeder valve one one of the rear wheels and see if there is pressure in the system...
You might try pumping the brakes a few times without driving the van to simulate what you do when driving then check he bleeders for pressure.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 363
Likes: 15
From: west central wisconsin
Well I "THINK" it's fixed. Being this was a drive train/body swap I happen to have an extra anti lock brake module. So I replaced that today and did a quick vacuum bleed. Took it for a test ride and it's much better. Will only lock up in a panic stop when just about stopped. Works great during normal braking, which would lock up before. After heavy use and a quick jacking up wheel are still turning freely.
Looking at the "old" module you can see the crud that was in it. Those are the ports for the brake lines going out to the wheels. Not sure how it got in there but I see why it may not release completely.
I'll bleed the brakes one more time as the peddle is just a little soft. Hopefully it's good to go.
Thanks all for the help. When the frustration sets in it's nice to have a place get some ideas/help.
Looking at the "old" module you can see the crud that was in it. Those are the ports for the brake lines going out to the wheels. Not sure how it got in there but I see why it may not release completely.
I'll bleed the brakes one more time as the peddle is just a little soft. Hopefully it's good to go.
Thanks all for the help. When the frustration sets in it's nice to have a place get some ideas/help.