Same HV vs. standard volume argument...no solution
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 412
Likes: 3
Very good explanation.
So basically -- the M57B and M57HV have the same pressure potential, with the HV having more flow capabilities.
Note the 4000 RPM flow rating.
In a given engine application, if the M57HV hits the pressure relief at 3500 while the M57B has to spin up to say 5000 to hit it, wouldn't that mean that the M57HV could be supplying more oil to my bearings at 2500-3000 RPM, where I'm doing my driving, and thereby being a "good thing" in this scenario? If it pops open during shifts -- big deal.
It is interesting that you bring the high pressure pumps into the cards -- it seems like the argument is always between HV and standard.
So basically -- the M57B and M57HV have the same pressure potential, with the HV having more flow capabilities.
Note the 4000 RPM flow rating.
In a given engine application, if the M57HV hits the pressure relief at 3500 while the M57B has to spin up to say 5000 to hit it, wouldn't that mean that the M57HV could be supplying more oil to my bearings at 2500-3000 RPM, where I'm doing my driving, and thereby being a "good thing" in this scenario? If it pops open during shifts -- big deal.
It is interesting that you bring the high pressure pumps into the cards -- it seems like the argument is always between HV and standard.
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,544
Likes: 322
From: Harned, Ky
Given the standard figure of 10 psi per 1000 rpm it would only require 25-30 psi to adequately maintain the needed oil for your engine while cruising at 2500-3000 rpm, given that, I've seen most pumps reach max pressure by 2500-3000 so if it takes a M57B 5000rpm to reach max psi which is 20 psi more than needed, in reality there's a oil leakage issue somewhere that needs addressed.
In my case the M57HV masked the issue until the pan sucked dry, had I installed a higher capacity oil pan I may not feel the way I do today.
I think with the amount of racing these engines did back in the day with minimum failures due to oiling problems proves they don't need a HV pump to survive.
But everyone has a choice of what they want to use, I chose not to use a HV oil pump for reasons stated.
Not many run the HP pump, seams it's mainly used in racing 427's, they have a pressure relief in the back of the block to control system pressure, the pumps relief valve hardy ever opens there forth most all of the oil is pumped through the oil galley's and relieved at the back end of the system.
These pumps are also hard on dist drive gears in standard engines.
In my case the M57HV masked the issue until the pan sucked dry, had I installed a higher capacity oil pan I may not feel the way I do today.
I think with the amount of racing these engines did back in the day with minimum failures due to oiling problems proves they don't need a HV pump to survive.
But everyone has a choice of what they want to use, I chose not to use a HV oil pump for reasons stated.
Not many run the HP pump, seams it's mainly used in racing 427's, they have a pressure relief in the back of the block to control system pressure, the pumps relief valve hardy ever opens there forth most all of the oil is pumped through the oil galley's and relieved at the back end of the system.
These pumps are also hard on dist drive gears in standard engines.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 412
Likes: 3
FWIW -- I used an HV oil pump in my build per choosing one school of thought in favor of it, but I do not think I would do it again. After getting my engine put together, I started to run into more threads on this exact topic and began questioning my decision. I do not see it being any risk at all when done properly, but the benefit has not been proved with actual testing, from what I can tell.
My bearings did not look scored when I did my tear down and it ran the standard pump with worn out clearances.
It seems to be an unproven "peace of mind" vs "unnecessary risk" battle.
I do think that it would be interesting to sacrifice a junk block and tap oil galleries to put pressure gauges in various places. I'm not sure if this could be done or not...really just having a 2nd pressure reading at the end of the line would probably be enough.
My bearings did not look scored when I did my tear down and it ran the standard pump with worn out clearances.
It seems to be an unproven "peace of mind" vs "unnecessary risk" battle.
I do think that it would be interesting to sacrifice a junk block and tap oil galleries to put pressure gauges in various places. I'm not sure if this could be done or not...really just having a 2nd pressure reading at the end of the line would probably be enough.
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