1965 crankcase breathing
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Freshman User
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From: Cambridgeshire
1965 crankcase breathing
Hi guys
Been using the truck more and more and slowly getting it in order.
Quick question.
My truck has a 360 that was rebuilt some time ago (?) and has non-standard rocker covers on it. I think they are standard ones from a Thunderbird and the passenger side one has a PCV valve that's directly plumed into the base of the carb. should I have a vented oil filler cap?
I have noticed that on longer trips, I do get an oil mist behind the vented cap
thanks for the help
Barry
Been using the truck more and more and slowly getting it in order.
Quick question.
My truck has a 360 that was rebuilt some time ago (?) and has non-standard rocker covers on it. I think they are standard ones from a Thunderbird and the passenger side one has a PCV valve that's directly plumed into the base of the carb. should I have a vented oil filler cap?
I have noticed that on longer trips, I do get an oil mist behind the vented cap
thanks for the help
Barry
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2016
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The simple way many folks do it is to have an air breather on the valve cover opposite side from the PCV valve. That way you "sweep" the crankcase. There's a better way to do it for drag racing to provide vacuum sealing of the rings but I don't think that's necessary for most folks.
If you're getting oil mist out of the vent you may have an issue or two to address. The worst case is worn rings allowing blow by. You may just need a new PCV valve or you may not have any baffles inside your valve covers.
BTW, the "rattle test" or the "does it suck test" does not necessarily mean your PCV valve is okay or that it's even the right valve. A guy can go crazy trying to find the right valve for an old truck. Or you can pay big bucks for an adjustable Wagner valve or you can just say the heck with it, get rid of the valve, and put breathers on both valve covers like I did. I don't get any mist...just a little steam wafting out of the breathers on cold days.
If you're getting oil mist out of the vent you may have an issue or two to address. The worst case is worn rings allowing blow by. You may just need a new PCV valve or you may not have any baffles inside your valve covers.
BTW, the "rattle test" or the "does it suck test" does not necessarily mean your PCV valve is okay or that it's even the right valve. A guy can go crazy trying to find the right valve for an old truck. Or you can pay big bucks for an adjustable Wagner valve or you can just say the heck with it, get rid of the valve, and put breathers on both valve covers like I did. I don't get any mist...just a little steam wafting out of the breathers on cold days.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2017
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From: Ahwatukee
The PO had put a chrome non-vented plug type filler cap on the driver side valve cover, which looked good but pretty much prevented the PCV valve from doing it's job. Total cost of the breather cap - less than 10 bucks.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: W (BY GOD) V
The simple way many folks do it is to have an air breather on the valve cover opposite side from the PCV valve. That way you "sweep" the crankcase.
If you're getting oil mist out of the vent you may have an issue or two to address. The worst case is worn rings allowing blow by. You may just need a new PCV valve or you may not have any baffles inside your valve covers.
BTW, the "rattle test" or the "does it suck test" does not necessarily mean your PCV valve is okay or that it's even the right valve.
Somebody finally said it...
A guy can go crazy trying to find the right valve for an old truck. Or you can pay big bucks for an adjustable Wagner valve
...or you can just say the heck with it, get rid of the valve, and put breathers on both valve covers like I did. I don't get any mist...just a little steam wafting out of the breathers on cold days.
...or you can just say the heck with it, get rid of the valve, and put breathers on both valve covers like I did. I don't get any mist...just a little steam wafting out of the breathers on cold days.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2016
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It is being vented...just not with a PCV valve. There's no reason to goop up the intake valves on an engine that never had any other emissions control. Just make sure your engine runs above 175F to drive off steam and change oil at 3000 miles or less.
My 2002 3/4 ton truck only has the factory installed draft tube...that's it for crankcase ventilation. To me that seems the same as running valve cover breathers for venting the crankcase.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: W (BY GOD) V
It is being vented...just not with a PCV valve. There's no reason to goop up the intake valves on an engine that never had any other emissions control. Just make sure your engine runs above 175F to drive off steam and change oil at 3000 miles or less.
My 2002 3/4 ton truck only has the factory installed draft tube...that's it for crankcase ventilation. To me that seems the same as running valve cover breathers for venting the crankcase.
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Freshman User
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From: Cambridgeshire
just got back to looking at the truck, I must be going blind!
My oil filler goes into the inlet manifold, not the rocker box cover.
Should it be vented ?
BTW what is a draft tube?
cheers
My oil filler goes into the inlet manifold, not the rocker box cover.
Should it be vented ?
BTW what is a draft tube?
cheers
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Cargo Master
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All engine crank cases need to be vented or breath in some way or you will push out gaskets (crankshaft seal, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, etc). You'll also trap a LOT of water in your engine oil. So either set up a PCV system, or at least one breather (preferably two) per valve cover, or set up a draft tube system.
A draft tube was used in the mid-sixties and earlier before PCV valves were created. It was routed from the valve cover down to beside the oil pan. While driving down the road, the "draft" sucked blow by gasses out of the crankcase. PCV valves replaced the draft tube and cycle the blow by gasses right back into the combustion chamber.
A few vehicles (like my 3/4 ton diesel pickup) had draft tubes right up until the past 10 years (roughly).
PCV systems are generally required on vehicles that had them from the factory for environmental regulations. Just pay attention and modify as necessary if you notice a lot of oil getting sucked through the PCV valve. May need to modify valve cover baffle and/or get an adjustable PCV valve especially if you constantly run more than 2500 rpms.
A draft tube was used in the mid-sixties and earlier before PCV valves were created. It was routed from the valve cover down to beside the oil pan. While driving down the road, the "draft" sucked blow by gasses out of the crankcase. PCV valves replaced the draft tube and cycle the blow by gasses right back into the combustion chamber.
A few vehicles (like my 3/4 ton diesel pickup) had draft tubes right up until the past 10 years (roughly).
PCV systems are generally required on vehicles that had them from the factory for environmental regulations. Just pay attention and modify as necessary if you notice a lot of oil getting sucked through the PCV valve. May need to modify valve cover baffle and/or get an adjustable PCV valve especially if you constantly run more than 2500 rpms.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: W (BY GOD) V
My truck has a 360 that was rebuilt some time ago (?) and has non-standard rocker covers on it. I think they are standard ones from a Thunderbird and the passenger side one has a PCV valve that's directly plumed into the base of the carb. should I have a vented oil filler cap?
I have noticed that on longer trips, I do get an oil mist behind the vented cap
Interesting. Another LT FE with an earlier style FE 4V intake upgrade. Another poster was describing his 65 352 4V upgrade. His had a T-BIRD 390 intake.
Is the actual PCV location in the back of the intake or rocker cover (post 1964 rocker cover style)? Can you provide photos?
It has to have either a road draft system or PCV system to properly ventilate the crankcase.
Similar Subject Post - https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ciphering.html
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From: Cambridgeshire
Yes the PCV is at the back of the passenger side rocker cover (they are stamped "thunderbird" so I guess that's where they came from.
The drivers side has no holes fro breather or PCV and as stated the oil filler is in the inlet manifold and is a chrome edlebrock item that's vented to air.
Air filter is a chrome pancake but I do have the oil bath one from the thunderbird available, but it does seem to have any connections for emissions
Will try and post some pics
Thanks
The drivers side has no holes fro breather or PCV and as stated the oil filler is in the inlet manifold and is a chrome edlebrock item that's vented to air.
Air filter is a chrome pancake but I do have the oil bath one from the thunderbird available, but it does seem to have any connections for emissions
Will try and post some pics
Thanks
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Simi Valley, CA
PCV introduced in 1961, was mandatory in sold in CA vehicles, may have been mandated in other states as well.
1961/64 FE engines: Smog valve threads into a boss at the front of the intake manifold.
1965/66 F100/350 352: Smog valve fits into a rubber grommet (377394-S) at the rear of the right valve cover.
1965/66 F100/350 352 without PCV: Road draft tube (C5TZ-6758-B) fits into a rubber grommet (377393-S) at the rear of the right valve cover.
Cargo Master
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F.Y.I. going out to NumberDummy: Road draft tubes were used on way more cars and trucks then just 1965/1966 Ford F100/F350 with the 352. I don't know exactly but I'll wildly guess they came into use in the 1920's...possibly sooner and were generally replaced by PCV systems in most passenger cars/trucks sold in the U.S. by the mid 1960's. Again, I don't know exactly and it really doesn't matter but draft tubes were definitely more widely used then the very narrow time frame and vehicles you are stating.
Draft tubes were replaced when it was determined they were a major contributor to smog.
Draft tubes were replaced when it was determined they were a major contributor to smog.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Simi Valley, CA
It could not have been installed in the 1961/64 FE valve cover, because there were no holes in them.
I'm well aware of road draft tube usage in myriad different vehicles, but the OP has a 1965 w/a swapped in 360.
In fact, the 1937 Packard 115-C (flathead 6) was the first vehicle to have a rudimentary PCV system.
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Freshman User
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From: Cambridgeshire
Thanks a million for all the great info.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is will what I have cause any problems other than oil mist from the vented filler cap or should I be looking to change things?
I did wonder about disconnecting the PCV, using a non vented oil filler cap, and putting a hole in the drivers side cover and putting a filters on each rocker box
No worried about historical accuracy here.
thanks
I guess what I'm trying to get at is will what I have cause any problems other than oil mist from the vented filler cap or should I be looking to change things?
I did wonder about disconnecting the PCV, using a non vented oil filler cap, and putting a hole in the drivers side cover and putting a filters on each rocker box
No worried about historical accuracy here.
thanks