Looking for input on radiator upgrade.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 350
Likes: 44
From: North central TX
Looking for input on radiator upgrade.
My truck (F150 400 auto 2wd) is still sporting it's original radiator from 1978, which had always been sufficient up until I replaced the tired old 351m with a fresh 400. It is bored .060" over which is likely where the extra heat comes from but is pretty much a stock build other than that.
Previously I could sit in traffic all day with the a/c on in the texas heat and the engine would hold steady at around 195ish. Now it likes to run around 195-215 max with it usually sitting at 200 or so degrees at idle. Surprisingly enough the temps don't really creep up at idle. At highway speed the temps get into the hotter end of that range and fluctuate a fair amount, maybe my lower radiator hose is trying to collapse too?
Anyway, the current rad is a standard extra cooling unit, fan shroud is present, factory fan with a relatively new clutch is in place and the correct thermostat is installed. I have a super cooling unit I picked up a few months back that has been rodded out and worked over by a local radiator shop which I could swap in, but I would need a new fan shroud. Is it worth my time to try swapping in the big radiator? Will it even make a difference anyway or should i just get a new aluminum one that fits my current fan shroud?
Previously I could sit in traffic all day with the a/c on in the texas heat and the engine would hold steady at around 195ish. Now it likes to run around 195-215 max with it usually sitting at 200 or so degrees at idle. Surprisingly enough the temps don't really creep up at idle. At highway speed the temps get into the hotter end of that range and fluctuate a fair amount, maybe my lower radiator hose is trying to collapse too?
Anyway, the current rad is a standard extra cooling unit, fan shroud is present, factory fan with a relatively new clutch is in place and the correct thermostat is installed. I have a super cooling unit I picked up a few months back that has been rodded out and worked over by a local radiator shop which I could swap in, but I would need a new fan shroud. Is it worth my time to try swapping in the big radiator? Will it even make a difference anyway or should i just get a new aluminum one that fits my current fan shroud?
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,553
Likes: 10
Sounds like your original is doing darn well for its age. Idle temps are a bit warm but not too concerning. Heating at speed and load is a bit more concerning. Sounds to me like your radiator is getting tired and higher engine displacement and power are getting to be too much for it.
I run a stock type 400 in a '78 also. My original radiator got tired about 6 years ago. First I tried a parts store "all copper extra cooling" radiator. Slow speed cooling was good but at speed and load a bit of heating up. I switched to a Champion and big improvement.
I can recommend a Champion... probably 3 core is best for your application. Others have had good luck with aluminum core plastic tank radiators from the parts store. You probably want the "extra cooling" variety.
I do not think you should need the "super cooling" radiator.
I run a stock type 400 in a '78 also. My original radiator got tired about 6 years ago. First I tried a parts store "all copper extra cooling" radiator. Slow speed cooling was good but at speed and load a bit of heating up. I switched to a Champion and big improvement.
I can recommend a Champion... probably 3 core is best for your application. Others have had good luck with aluminum core plastic tank radiators from the parts store. You probably want the "extra cooling" variety.
I do not think you should need the "super cooling" radiator.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 350
Likes: 44
From: North central TX
Do you have a part number for the champion radiator you have? Did the factory fan shroud work with it?
The only reason I'm considering a super cooling radiator is because I already have one.
The only reason I'm considering a super cooling radiator is because I already have one.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
I was having the typical temp rising when at a light or in very slow traffic. I bought a three row champion aluminum radiator off e bay and it was a direct fit. The original shroud bolted on with no problems as well. I can now sit on a drive thru and the temp will not creep up, and I live where its over 90 every day
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 154
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I'm using the super cooling in front of my 6.9 turbo diesel, 93+, ac on, towing heavy, no problems, stays right at 192.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,099
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From: York, Pa
With the 4 row Champion and my 460 with orig clutch fan I didn't have enough clearance to use my 400 shroud. I ended up using one for a FE, it was a little shallower and worked out better.
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 350
Likes: 44
From: North central TX
Well, I went ahead and took the plunge and ordered a new 3 core unit from champion. I wouldn't say it was a direct fit, in fact it hardly fit at all. The mounting holes just barely lined up, I had to space the ac condenser out so it wouldn't hit, and the shroud sits crooked so the fan hits it. I'm starting to think I should have gone with the super cooling radiator...
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,219
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From: Colorado Springs
I know I've said this over and over again and done detailed threads on rebuilt Ford super cooling radiators but stick with the oem stuff over aftermarket. I used to run the cheap-o aluminum rad but they need maintenance, won't last as long and look terrible. Nothing better than seeing the massive original brass tanks when you look under the hood. They can be re-cored with high efficiency cores up to five rows.
Plus they always FIT, and Dennis Carpenter remakes the shrouds that FIT. The above picture of the aluminum rad with the shroud- there's a large space for air to bypass the cores. Not good for temps over 90's ambient.
Plus they always FIT, and Dennis Carpenter remakes the shrouds that FIT. The above picture of the aluminum rad with the shroud- there's a large space for air to bypass the cores. Not good for temps over 90's ambient.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 9,621
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From: San Jose, CA
The new crop of OE replacements from Spectra are aluminum, but made the OE way (current manufacturing design) where the aluminum core is glued/crimped to the plastic side tanks.
Might be the best of both worlds, but you'll also get the argument that the new design is just not as reliable as the old ones. Well, unfortunately neither are the old designs reliable in some cases these days. Depends on where they were made I guess.
Or more likely, to who's specifications.
I've personally never had an aluminum/plastic modern radiator fail on me. In cars or trucks. There are enough people that have had issues that it can't be ignored. But I'll likely go to that style my next time around.
Just had an old-school (but new) copper/brass radiator go bad on me after only less than 4000 miles in the Bronco. Not a good record that, but there are plenty of them out there that have had zero problems too. Maybe the two designs are actually carrying similar baggage.
Anyway, I'm willing to give one a try and RockAuto does have a couple of versions of them available. They look close enough to OE to fit without trouble, assuming you get the one with the right mounting flange of course.
Paul
Might be the best of both worlds, but you'll also get the argument that the new design is just not as reliable as the old ones. Well, unfortunately neither are the old designs reliable in some cases these days. Depends on where they were made I guess.
Or more likely, to who's specifications.
I've personally never had an aluminum/plastic modern radiator fail on me. In cars or trucks. There are enough people that have had issues that it can't be ignored. But I'll likely go to that style my next time around.
Just had an old-school (but new) copper/brass radiator go bad on me after only less than 4000 miles in the Bronco. Not a good record that, but there are plenty of them out there that have had zero problems too. Maybe the two designs are actually carrying similar baggage.
Anyway, I'm willing to give one a try and RockAuto does have a couple of versions of them available. They look close enough to OE to fit without trouble, assuming you get the one with the right mounting flange of course.
Paul
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
I know I've said this over and over again and done detailed threads on rebuilt Ford super cooling radiators but stick with the oem stuff over aftermarket. I used to run the cheap-o aluminum rad but they need maintenance, won't last as long and look terrible. Nothing better than seeing the massive original brass tanks when you look under the hood. They can be re-cored with high efficiency cores up to five rows.
Plus they always FIT, and Dennis Carpenter remakes the shrouds that FIT. The above picture of the aluminum rad with the shroud- there's a large space for air to bypass the cores. Not good for temps over 90's ambient.
Plus they always FIT, and Dennis Carpenter remakes the shrouds that FIT. The above picture of the aluminum rad with the shroud- there's a large space for air to bypass the cores. Not good for temps over 90's ambient.