New here! Looked high and low, can't find the answer. I have 1975 f250 with a 460. The truck has a starter solenoid on the side wall. Went to buy a new starter but they are showing a starter with an external Solenoid attached to the starter . That's not going to work. So, found a starter for a 351 1969. Hooked it up, went to start it, didn't realize the gear inside is further in the starter then my other starter. Everything else matched up. Fly wheel is barely grabbing it. My question is, does anyone know where I can get the correct starter OR can I remove the solenoid on the wall and just use the starter with the solenoid attached to it like all the auto parts stores are saying is the starter that goes on it?
thanks for the help!

 

It sounds like the solenoid "on the wall" you're talking about it the starter relay. You'll have that relay on the inner fender by the battery and then the starter should have its own solenoid on the starter itself. Uno momento and I'll get pictures.

 

This should be on the inner fender.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...AyeKbMHrP3k3M:

 

I apologise, yes, you are correct! However, if I put the starter on the store is calling for, it doesn't work. I had one on my boat that matched the original starter, without the solenoid and it works. But, can't keep my boats starter on my truck so trying to find one for my truck. I have never had such a headache with finding a starter.

 

My current truck, 77 F100, which has a 302 has the positive wire from the battery to that solenoid on the inner fender and then another positive on the other side of that solenoid going to the starter where it attaches to the post on the starter's solenoid. I have a 460 in my '75 F150 which attaches the same way I'm pretty sure. I'm not at home, but I can go look once I'm off work.

 

This isn't the exact one but this is what it looks like. That would be great if you could compare your 460 and let me know!
I have exactly everything you speak of but, I only have the one post for the positive coming out of the starter. I will attempt to send a pic of my starter...

 

This is like what they are all saying I need to put on it.

 

Get one for a 400. NAPA 4N9200(new)

 

They could be trying to sell you a starter for a newer 460 like one for a 90's 460. They are smaller and look different than the one's for the 70's 460.

 

Some of the 460's had a separate solenoid on the starter as well as the one on the Fender.
These were used from 68-77 on some 460's . It is the right starter.

If you want one with out a solenoid then get one from a 78 on up F250/F350 with a 460.

 

What they said. Many people are "updating" theirs to the newer style of PMGR (permanent magnet, gear reduction) starters that Ford was using on later rigs. So maybe the company you were buying from is just doing that automatically now?
No reason though that you should not be able to find and use a starter like you had on it before. Looks like the numbers quoted by the others here will do it for you.

And I have also seen starters on 460's with the solenoid on the body, while using the relay on the fender. Just not checked them out very closely, so don't have any tips and tricks on the wiring.
The newer cars and trucks (well, 90's or so) used the new starters, but continued to use the fender mounted relay. For three reasons I can think of.
1. To take the added load of a solenoid off of the stock ignition switch.
2. As a common spot for wiring junctions still.
3. To isolate the electrical system from any possible feedback of electricity from keeping the starter hung up and spinning after you release the key. This is not a big problem for every application, but happens often enough with older wiring systems that it's worth mentioning.

There is no reason I can think of that you can't make either type of starter work, wiring-wise, with your engine and the fender mounted relay.
Yours might just be lacking the one extra (smaller) wire that goes to energize the solenoid. If you only connected the one large cable to the big lug on the new starter, that won't cut it.
You would also have needed the other wire. When upgrade kits are sold, they usually have an extra wire in it for you. Sounds like the company that sold you the starter really did think that this was the type of starter you had so you would already have that wire. Which you did not.

No worries though. Either starter should work as long as it fits the bell housing, reaches the ring-gear teeth correctly, and has all the wires needed.
And yes, as you can gather from the comments here the little thingy on the inner fender is actually a "relay" like has been said, and the piggyback unit on the starter is an actual "solenoid" for real.
Ford called the fender mounted unit a relay, and that's what it is. A "solenoid" by definition must do some physical labor, as do the units that are piggybacked on the starter motors because they're used to also shove the gear into the ring-gear while closing the contacts and starting the motor spinning.
Even though Ford has called it a relay from the beginning, the word solenoid was used by so many back when (who were more familiar with a solenoid mounted on a starter) that it took and has become, although incorrect, practically universally known as such. And now practically the whole industry calls them that too so that the customers and parts people are on the same page.
While some box labels will still list it as a "switch" or a "relay", most have taken to calling them "solenoids" because that's what most people know them as.

So it works, but at least now you know it's a relay.
In case you didn't already....

Paul

 

When i needed a starter and solenoid I told Autozone it was a 1979 f150 460 J code.
Had the correct starter and fender mounted solenoid.

 

Switching to a PMGR starter on Fords with a starter relay entails a few wiring issues lest the starter have a "run on" condition that can be very damaging. I discuss these wiring issues in my build starting here.

 

Technically the fender or firewall mounted critters are solenoids, because they utilize a coil of wire internally no matter what Ford called them. They are a relay.

A solenoid though is a specific type of relay. A relay is not necessarily a solenoid however. In general a relay mechanism is where a small voltage controls a larger voltage. In practice it means not having to run 0 gauge cable all the way to the ignition switch on the dash, for example.

 

A solenoid is not a specific type of relay, a solenoid can also be a relay, but a relay can never be a solenoid.

Relay's and solenoids are differentiated as such in regards to electrical circuits..

Relays switch current and do no mechanical work. They use a control voltage to switch a higher voltage or high load.

Solenoids on the other hand do mechanical work.
IE an electrically actuated solenoid valve for controlling the flow of fluids.

The starter relay on the fender is a true relay and not a solenoid.

The Solenoid on the starter is both a solenoid and a relay as it not only controls the flow of current to the starter motor but also engauges the starter drive , since it does mechanical work (engauging the starter drive) it generally would just be called a solenoid.

But in some engineering parlance's it would be called a solenoid relay to indicate it does both mechanical work and switching.