How is the steering? Notice any difference if it wanders or drifts less?

 

Well, it's been several weeks.

I really like the change in the suspension. If your truck is needing the suspension replaced and you can't make your mind up.

TRUST ME, it's worth the coin to get it fixed. PROPERLY.

It rides really nice now that the springs, shocks and sway bars are all working together properly for a change.

I really like the results.

Now on to the brakes... which means larger wheels (Ford 18") and larger rotors, new pads and multi piston calipers and new SS lines. Should pretty much handle the stopping chores for this heavy truck.

One step at a time.

 

Interested in your findings for larger brakes that will fit inside 18" wheels. The only option that I have found for big brakes require minimum 20" wheels to fit. And of course fitting Ford OEM 20"s (or any 18"s other than the '04s) will need spacers unless you swap in the '05+ SD suspension and wider axles, but you just did your spring swap.

 

Tom,
I'm going to have a conversation with Baer and see what they have. I've gotten their rotors for my Dodge Magnum and for my mom's Lincoln Town Car.Their websited doesn't SAY they make them for the Excursion, but I'll have to have that conversation. Then I'll let you know.

It would figure to be the ONE TRUCK they don't make them for. But I have hope, using the 04 18" Ford wheels off an F250 may give me some hope.

Phone call on either Monday or Tuesday next week will give me the yes or no.

 

1999 - 2004 F250, F350, Excursion Front "Direct Fit" "V8" 8 Piston Aluminum Caliper Upgrade Kit - A193-1

Stewart

 

I wouldn't call those an "upgrade" to braking performance. If you do the math on the piston area it is identical to stock.

 

Yeah, they do look cool but they are not really "big brakes".

 

All that really matters is stopping distance. Does anyone have any real data?

 

for the calipers themselves there is no way there would be a difference simply because both Calipers are doing the same work.

If they were capable of decreasing stopping distance that would be the headline on the companies advertisement. Instead what the sales pitch is " designed to replace bulky cast calipers with Light weight large bore Aluminum calipers"

Ummm ok neat, your Excursion front axle weighs in at about 750 pounds, a couple of pounds of unsprung weight reduction is not going to make any difference in suspension tuning.

 

If you wanted to decrease stopping distance on the Excursion the first limiting factor to overcome would be the amount of rubber on the road, you can't make a vehicle stop in a shorther distance if you are skidding ( in the case of the Excursion ABS brake modulation ) the more traction the tire has the harder it is to make it skid.

Once you had enough traction available on the road surface that the brake system could not lockup a front wheel then you would want to install larger rotors to increase the leverage. That is a simplified summary of course, if you want to read more on brake system math this is a good start.

https://www.joesracing.com/rt-4172-m...nder-math.html

 

P4x4C,

Stressing the "all things being equal" part of this statement,

What you are basically saying is:

"Bigger wheels & tires" plus "larger brake rotors" - RIGHT?

That's the plan - we all know about "best laid plans of mice and men"?

 

Generally speaking yes.

If you read the link I post they recommend working with a braking engineer and when setting up race cars I have always used wilwood. My knowledge is from working with those guys and then building a system and going out and testing. I'd advise calling wilwood as they have a actual big brake setup that will actually increase your braking power.

Wilwood High Performance Disc Brakes - 2005 Ford F-250 Super Duty 4 x 4 - Front Brake Kit No.: 140-13867-R




OEM Ford floating caliper uses dual 2.12" 53mm pistons.
SSBC is a fixed mount and uses 4, 1.57" 40mm pistons
Wilwood fixed mount uses tapered piston 1@2" and 2@1.88" / 51mm and 48mm


using Effective Area of Piston = Diameter x Diameter x .78 = (answer in sq. in.)
Force = psi x Area of Piston = (answer in pounds)

with 800 psi of line pressure you get
Ford 7.55 sq inches of piston area and 6040 lbs of force
SSBC 7.47 sq inches of piston area 5979 lbs of force
Wilwood 8.7 sq inches of piston area 6960 lbs of force

So aside from using a caliper with more piston area the wilwood setup replaces the 13" Ford caliper with a massive 16" caliper. To give you an idea, it wasn't until 2013 that ford went to a 14.29" caliper on the F250

 

As the "founder" of the Big Brake kits for your F250 and a 24yr Wilwood dealer I can tell you the new Factory Kits for the 05-12 kits won't fit the earlier model. You'll need the 99-04 versions of which TCE will remain the sole supplier of. We first did the mid generation many years ago, then the earlier and now the later models including many of the kits you've seen on 13 and later trucks last year and even this year at SEMA. It may say Wilwood....but that's not always who produced it in beta form. We have a long working relation.

The gains in stopping of all these trucks has not been so much about distance but repeated stopping and fade. The stock brakes just are not up to continued abuse. One stop maximum stopping is largely limited by tire adhesion. And on most truck the tire compounds of course are not exactly ultra-sticky. Meaning lock up can be achieved with stock and aftermarket brakes at similar levels. Where the BBK comes into play is managing the heat generated and thus assuring you the later stops are as good as the first stop.

While the math is likely correct we've opted to keep both the TC6R for both it's size (the TX6 requires 22s in nearly every case we've sold one) and the slightly smaller total area. That area 6.9" not the TX of 8.7. The larger bore is part of the reason Wilwood is not going to this market (along with the 22s) as this is too much area change. Yes it's more area and clamp force, but it's also not compatible with the stock MC in doing so. The net is a longer, softer pedal. The goal here is not really to make more total clamp force but to keep said force in an efficient and controlled manner. In this case the slightly less area is replaced by both the larger rotor and bump in pad Cf for improved bite and again; fade resistance.


*A quick check on my old XL design pages show the change from oe brakes to your TC6 16" kit, despite the loss of piston area, net again of about 25% in total rotor torque.

 

Todd,

Are you calculating rotor torque as ?

T = r*u*F

T = braking torque
r = radius of rotor
u = coefficient of friction between the rotor and the brake pad
F = piston force on rotor


Can you give us the COF of the pads you supply with your setup ?
Any idea what the ford OEM pads are ?

 

You're welcome to use the calculators on the web page. Most oe pads are in the .38-.40 range from my research, the BP20s in the .45 range and elevating with temp.

* Please consider the average Er of the system in your calculations. Pad size plays a roll also.