Finally, after years of saving, I have come to the point where I am ready to build my 400. I am hoping to get some advice from the experienced members here.


First off, my 400 is in a car, not a truck. It's a 1972 400, in a 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport fastback. The car has been in the family since day one, and will never leave the family. So I want to build this one right. Currently the engine is pretty stock, an Edelbrock Intake, Holley 670 SA carb, and some minor ignition tweaks. It has about 150K on it, and runs decent.


My goal is to improve the performance of the car, while building a durable street only engine. I also want it to "appear" as stock as possible when done. The car has 2.75 gears in it now (26.5" tires), and it sees 80% highway. I'd like to keep the highway gears in the car (OD is not really an option), as even with the stock motor now it performs very well at modern highway speeds.


So far I am thinking that I'd like to do the following:

• TMI pistons, .030 over
• Keep stock crank and rods, probably have to turn the crank, recondition the rods
• ARP fasteners throughout
• Stock 400-2V 1972 heads, rebuild with one piece stainless valves
• Roller cam setup
• Scorpion roller rocker arms
• Re-used the Eddy intake and Holley 670 SA
• Would like to use TMI's new Ready to Run ignition (if being sold)
• Double Roller timing set (I actually installed a Cloyes set about 5K ago)
• TMI oil system mods and cam bearing
• Hoping I can use Sanderson FC4 headers

I am not sure one what I want to do for a cam. With the highway gears, I know I can't go to crazy, and the car is pretty heavy (scales at just over 4000lbs). I would like something that would pull to higher RPM while still having strong low end torque.


I have seen these two roller cam builds that seem to have decent results:




https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...part-deux.html


Comp Cam - TMeyer "Pantera" grind:
GROSS VALVE LIFT .589.602
DURATION@ .050 216.00 224.00




https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...o-results.html


Cam:


https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...11-8/overview/


I'd also consider using Trickflow heads, especially if it will cost a ton to get my stock heads redone. If I paint the new heads Ford blue, I figure it will keep my stock appearing theme going.


I am strongly considering using TMI to do maybe the shortblock or long block with my hesitation being the shipping costs/duty from Canada. I also live in a small town, with a small machine shop that is pretty old school and I am not sure I trust their work. I do have a local builder that could help me build then engine.


Any advice, would be appreciated.

 

My advice is to go to TMI for everything - including the cam and the machine work. I had a local machine shop do my work and when I finally realized I wasn't finding the time to build the engine I shipped it to Tim. Cory, his engine guy, found several mistakes my machine shope made, including installing the cam bearings incorrectly, and fixed everything. I then went up for the dyno runs and saw 500 ft-lbs light up on the machine!

On the ignition, I'm getting what is probably serial #1 of them, and I don't have the engine yet - but it will be here two weeks from today!!!! Anyway, I don't have any experience.

My build uses Trick Flow heads, which was at Tim's recommendation. The CR is 10.5:1 so it'll run on pump gas, but makes more power with the same gas. And the cam is what I call Tim's Jr Pantera- it is a toned-down Pantera grind. We settled on that for low RPM torque and MPG.

But I recommend you call Tim and discuss this. He may have other recommendations than mine, and I would always go with his.

 

Thanks for the helpful response. I was leaning towards going to TMI for everything, I just hope it's within the budget and I can figure out some economical shipping.


What's the best way to reach Tim? I know he's really busy, but I'd like to get something rolling soon. My plan is when I park the car for the winter to pull the engine, so that's not too far off now.


Do you mind sharing the cam specs for the Pantera Jr cam?

 

Reaching Tim is usually best done via leaving him a voice message and telling him briefly what you want to do and leaving your number. He usually calls back pretty quickly, and that call can be lengthy as he is easy to talk to.

As for my build, here's the thread: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1291797-dads-engine.html. But that is quite lengthy, so the short version is in my signature. But add Scorpion rockers and roller lifters.

On the cam, I don't know the spec's. I went with Tim's advice on how to scale his Pantera grind to meet my needs, and he had Comp grind the cam.

And, to answer your question via PM, I don't yet know the price. He hasn't given me the bill as the engine isn't quite ready for delivery. But, even if I did have Tim's bill it really wouldn't answer your question as I bought all the parts from him two years ago and don't remember the cost. And I had all the machine work done in Tulsa, and don't have that cost. But part of Tim's bill is for redoing some of that work.

Bottom Line: Just have Tim do it the first time. It'll be less expensive in the long run.

 

Considering the cam has such critical importance to the engines performance and life, to me it makes sense to use a cam grinder who will talk with you directly- even modify the cam grind to fit your needs even better and to address the possibility of cam lobe failure with the new oils. When it comes to making an engine breathe, there are so many variables including elevation, humidity, fuel blends/available octane, most cam mfgs will vary a "core grind pattern" to match the external impactors in addition to the internal impactors- which today IMHO makes the different between and engine that runs well, to one that just seems to run a little bit better, smoother and gets better mileage than expected.

With regards to price...the difference is nil- especially considering its cheap insurance to know exactly who is machining such a critical part for your engine. And remember, advertized lift/duration/lobe separation is just that- advertized and not the specific grind including ramp profile that is used on the cam.

I highly recommend Iskenderian (who I personally know to this day physically tests/inspects every single valve spring before it leaves the shop) & Crower & Chet Herbert & Lunati...all are family owned, been grinding cams for decades, and both will even re-grind your oem cam if possible- saving you even more $.

IMHO, I would avoid comp like the plague... unless the cam is cut on Comps 8620 core and has a copper colored base to it, you should be OK. If it looks like a standard silver / metal camshaft all throughout you probably got one of their cheaper 5150 cores that won't last 20K miles before wiping out and failing. The 8620 cores run $400+.

To validate this point further as to the “McDonald’s environment” of which Comp Cams operates and the QA issue that are cyclic throughout their product lines....:

Tech Support Issue:
Comp Cams Bad Tech Support Blew my Engine

Valvetrain Failure:

Classic Cam Failure:
More issues....lets talk cam failure - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Cam Lobe Fracturing:
Cam lobe failure analysis - Yellow Bullet Forums

Cam Failure:
Comp cams failure. - Team Camaro Tech

FAIL Comp cams trunion- Rockwell hardness low:
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...n-upgrade.html

2nd Cam Failure:
After the second Comp failure . . .

Major problems with Comp Cams hydraulic roller lifters :
Major problems with Comp Cams hydraulic roller lifters

COMP CAMS FAIL (endless)
COMP CAMS FAIL - TrueStreetCars.com

Comp Cams Ultra Gold Aluminum Roller Rocker Failure
Comp Cams Ultra Gold Aluminum Roller Rocker Failure - LS1GTO.com Forums

Comp Cams 918 spring failures
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/ls1-...ilures-526319/
Cam Failure:
Comp cam - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

 

I've never had a issue with comp cams camshafts, but I did have three lifters that collapsed during break in. Replaced the 832-16 lifters with 862-16 lifters and have not had a problem since. Of course I have never had any camshaft that I have used fail. Ever, regardless of grind or who made it. Proper break in is critical regardless of cam manufacturer, as well as using the correct oil, spring rates and the proper compatible parts.

And I thought it was common knowledge to run a bronze dizzy gear with a roller cam? I've read about a lot of problems with dizzy gears and roller cams. That one sounds like operator error, regardless of what the guy told him on the phone.

I also have read about a lot of comp cams failures do to lack of ZDDP, but that was awhile ago and I have not heard any recent rash of failures. And comp wasn't the only manufacturer that had these problems. Not that I'm a comp cams fan, but I have used a few of there products without any serious issue.

 

Here is some info to help you choose what specs you want with a camshaft.

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ose_a_camshaft

 

Thanks Gary. I really appreciate your straight forward advice. I will give Tim a call this week and discuss my options.


And wow, that is one long thread! Thanks for all the info.

 

Welcome.

 

Tim said you did call and that things are worked out.

(He's coming to my Ford Truck Show on the 16th and bringing my engine, so we were nailing down the last details today. )

 

Hi Gary, yes I called him today on my lunch break. Like everyone says, great guy to talk to and your right about the lengthy call. I actually had to cut the call off as I ran out of time and had to get back to work.


Also after looking at the prices and talking to Tim, I am leaning towards aluminum heads. I know my 1972 heads are better flowing than the later 1975+ castings, but the aluminum heads will produce more power. When I have a chance I will have to call him back to work out the finer details. If I do a longblock, it's definitely more doable price-wise than a complete engine, but having him dyno tune the engine might be worth the cost.


After talking to him, I am pretty much convinced I am going to ship the engine. I am just trying to figure out the best way to do that. I may end up driving across the border to ship it (about 4.5 hours for me). Do you or anyone else have any advice on how to crate up and ship an engine?

 

Lol! Me? Experience crating? Start reading here. Tim said I won the prize for securely packaging, and thought it would survive a roll-over. ��

As for the heads, I went aluminum because it doesn't cost that much more and they flow so much better. Plus you can run more compression.

 

Aluminum heads are the only way to go these days. having a modern combustion chamber, better flowing ports and the ability to run higher compression are just too many good things to pass up.

 

Looking at Tim's latest spread sheets, I am a little over $1000 for the Aluminum heads over the stock iron heads. Does anyone know if the aluminium heads can be painted decently? I really want to have a "stock look" under the hood and would like my entire engine to be Ford blue. Also, will stock valve covers work with roller rockers?


Gary, that is quite the crate job you did! Thanks for sharing the link, I never would have found that in your thread. Do you know roughly the size of the crate or pallet I should use? I can get a 40 x 48 pallet and build a crate around it but maybe that's too big?

 

I'd go with Tim's Pantera grind camshaft - I have a similar camshaft in my 78 Bronco and really like it. It would probably be perfect for your Torino. It sounds like you are on the right track to me!