Starter Drive Issues
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Logistics Pro
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From: Deerbrook, WI
Starter Drive Issues
My starter appears to be original and had been working fine. When the engine was recently re-built and mated to a replacement transmission, I decided the starter should be re-built as well. As a part of the starter re-build, the drive (bendix) was replaced. Since the starter and flywheel were messed with, the bendix often does not engage properly with the flywheel on the first attempt of an engine start-up. If the start button is released and pressed again, however, the engine starts as it should without the nasty grinding sound that often occurs on the first try. Does this sound like a faulty drive, a worn flywheel, or something else? Thanks.
Jim
Jim
Ford Parts Specialist
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From: Simi Valley, CA
There is more than one type of the large Bendix drives. Was the correct Bendix installed, or...?
1CM-11350-C .. Bendix Drive - 4.77" long / Obsolete
1952 F1/F6 & 1953 F100/600 215 I-6 / 1953 F100 215/239 with Ford-O-Matic / 1954/56 F100/600 & C500/600 223/239.
All these types of Bendix' have a HUGE coil spring, the drive is retained to the shaft of the armature with a roll pin.
The spring has to be unwound by hand to access the roll pin, then rewound by hand (takes muscle) once the roll pin is installed.
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Edit: B1A-11350-A .. Bendix Drive with 10 tooth pinion / Obsolete
1948/51 F1/F6 & F5/F6 COE 226/254 / 1948/52 F1/F6 239 / 1953 F100 239 w/3 M/T with or without Overdrive / 1953 all trucks with 239.
1CM-11350-C .. Bendix Drive - 4.77" long / Obsolete
1952 F1/F6 & 1953 F100/600 215 I-6 / 1953 F100 215/239 with Ford-O-Matic / 1954/56 F100/600 & C500/600 223/239.
All these types of Bendix' have a HUGE coil spring, the drive is retained to the shaft of the armature with a roll pin.
The spring has to be unwound by hand to access the roll pin, then rewound by hand (takes muscle) once the roll pin is installed.
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Edit: B1A-11350-A .. Bendix Drive with 10 tooth pinion / Obsolete
1948/51 F1/F6 & F5/F6 COE 226/254 / 1948/52 F1/F6 239 / 1953 F100 239 w/3 M/T with or without Overdrive / 1953 all trucks with 239.
Cargo Master
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Check to make sure the new starter drive has the correct tooth count. Depending on how many teeth your flywheel has, either 112 or 114 (if stock), depends on which starter drive you use. The 226 could come with both those flywheel tooth counts if that's what you are working on.
JB
JB
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: NM
He has a '52 so this is a 215-6.
It sounds like the starter isn't hitting hard the first time. Could be a loose connection, a cheap solenoid, bad grounds on the starter-to-trans connection (i.e., painted).
It sounds like the starter isn't hitting hard the first time. Could be a loose connection, a cheap solenoid, bad grounds on the starter-to-trans connection (i.e., painted).
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Logistics Pro
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From: Deerbrook, WI
Thanks for the ideas on what could be wrong with my starter. I'm anxious to get to the bottom of my problem because every time I hear it grind, I'm thinking my flywheel is being damaged. Is this a fair assumption, or would any wear that may occur be limited to the starter drive gear? My son told me the starter gear was probably made from softer metal than the flywheel, and I needn't be concerned.
Jim
Jim
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From: Northville, MI
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Logistics Pro
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From: Deerbrook, WI
Thanks Pete. I know that my flywheel did not have the type of damage shown in the pictures you referenced. Right now I'm focused on painting (finally), but in the mean time, I'll keep start-ups to a minimum, and get the starter problem addressed as soon as possible. Hopefully the flywheel doesn't have to come out. Getting the engine and transmission lined up and linked together was a major pain.
Jim
Jim
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Cargo Master
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I remember Mr Selzam telling me when I was restoring my starter that you could actually over restore it and so that has always stuck with me. When I restored mine I kept all of the case contact points greased and free of paint, even to the attach points on the bellhousing. The more paint in the way, the weaker the ground, and subsequent start.
I wouldnt rule out the wrong drive, looks like there is a specific one for your engine.
PS, a ring gear change is a real PITA, even after you actually find a good one.
JB
I wouldnt rule out the wrong drive, looks like there is a specific one for your engine.
PS, a ring gear change is a real PITA, even after you actually find a good one.
JB
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Joe Kucinski
Ford Parts Specialist
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From: Simi Valley, CA
Thanks for the ideas on what could be wrong with my starter.
I'm anxious to get to the bottom of my problem because every time I hear it grind, I'm thinking my flywheel is being damaged.
Is this a fair assumption, or would any wear that may occur be limited to the starter drive gear?
My son told me the starter gear was probably made from softer metal than the flywheel,
and I needn't be concerned.
Hogwash!
I'm anxious to get to the bottom of my problem because every time I hear it grind, I'm thinking my flywheel is being damaged.
Is this a fair assumption, or would any wear that may occur be limited to the starter drive gear?
My son told me the starter gear was probably made from softer metal than the flywheel,
and I needn't be concerned.Hogwash!
The old ring gear is sweated off, the new ring gear is sweated on.
IMO: Take the flywheel to an auto parts store machine shop to have this done.
You could do it yourself, stick the flywheel in your oven, turn it up to high, sooner or later, the ring gear will pop off.
But to install the new ring gear, you have to do it by hand after it's heated...better wear welding gloves.
The other problem with doing it yourself is when the wife walks into the kitchen, says something smells bad, then says to pull the stove out from the wall...because there's a dead rat behind it.
EAA-6384-A .. 215/223 I-6 & 239/256/272/292/312 Y block Flywheel Ring Gear - 146 teeth / Obsolete ~ Available NOS & from auto parts stores.
Cars/trucks: 1952/53 215; 1954/55 239/256; 1954/64 223; 1955/59 272; 1956/64 292 // Passenger Cars only: 1956/57 Ford/Merc/Thunderbird 312; 1958/60 Merc 312.
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Logistics Pro
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From: Deerbrook, WI
I did do more painting than was probably necessary, but I thought I was careful to keep the contact points clear. Maybe not, however, and I will double check them. I'm hoping for an incorrect drive. I'm hoping too that my original drive is still around. Re-installing it would be a good way to diagnose the problem. I think the drive that was used was just ordered from a local auto parts store.
Believe Nothing
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: W. Central FL.
Originally Posted by 52 USCG Panel;17269472[B[B
]]My starter appears to be original and had been working fine.[/B] [/B] When the engine was recently re-built and mated to a replacement transmission, I decided the starter should be re-built as well. As a part of the starter re-build, the drive (bendix) was replaced. Since the starter and flywheel were messed with, the bendix often does not engage properly with the flywheel on the first attempt of an engine start-up.
Jim
Jim
I've run into several reproduction Ford starter bendix problems on old Ford tractors. The tractor is similar, perhaps identical to these on the trucks.
Some of these reproduction bendix are junk.
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Logistics Pro
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From: Deerbrook, WI
Thanks Bill. Hopefully it won't come to having to replace the ring gear. If it does, I'll know what to do. I heat treated my exhaust manifold in my wife's oven when she wasn't home. Had she been home, using the oven would have been a non-starter.
Jim
Jim
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From: Houston
If you do end up requiring a new ring gear this one worked on my 53 215 engine: Pioneer Inc. FRG146NC - Flywheel Ring Gear | O'Reilly Auto Parts
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Logistics Pro
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From: Deerbrook, WI
Thanks Fred for sourcing out a potential replacement part if my ring gear does end up having to be replaced.
My mechanic friend that rebuilt my starter did keep the original drive. He said the replacement drive he installed was meant to be used with a 12 volt system and could be causing the problem. Hopefully Ross and some of our other members who diagnosed my problem as the starter not turning fast enough are correct. The fix should be easy and just involve changing out the drive.
As soon as possible I'll put my old drive back in, and we'll find out if the ring gear is damaged or not.
Thanks again Fred and everyone else who "worked" on my case.
Jim
My mechanic friend that rebuilt my starter did keep the original drive. He said the replacement drive he installed was meant to be used with a 12 volt system and could be causing the problem. Hopefully Ross and some of our other members who diagnosed my problem as the starter not turning fast enough are correct. The fix should be easy and just involve changing out the drive.
As soon as possible I'll put my old drive back in, and we'll find out if the ring gear is damaged or not.
Thanks again Fred and everyone else who "worked" on my case.
Jim
Logistics Pro
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From: Northville, MI
Interesting. I also noticed a big difference between the bendix on my old starter and the new 12v starter that I bought. I also had to put the old Bendix on the new starter for it to fit properly.
Of course since the Bendtsen adapter for my 4R70W came with its own starter I don't need either of them.
Of course since the Bendtsen adapter for my 4R70W came with its own starter I don't need either of them.