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Starter Drive Issues

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Old 06-18-2017, 07:21 PM
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Starter Drive Issues

My starter appears to be original and had been working fine. When the engine was recently re-built and mated to a replacement transmission, I decided the starter should be re-built as well. As a part of the starter re-build, the drive (bendix) was replaced. Since the starter and flywheel were messed with, the bendix often does not engage properly with the flywheel on the first attempt of an engine start-up. If the start button is released and pressed again, however, the engine starts as it should without the nasty grinding sound that often occurs on the first try. Does this sound like a faulty drive, a worn flywheel, or something else? Thanks.

Jim
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:01 PM
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There is more than one type of the large Bendix drives. Was the correct Bendix installed, or...?

1CM-11350-C .. Bendix Drive - 4.77" long / Obsolete

1952 F1/F6 & 1953 F100/600 215 I-6 / 1953 F100 215/239 with Ford-O-Matic / 1954/56 F100/600 & C500/600 223/239.

All these types of Bendix' have a HUGE coil spring, the drive is retained to the shaft of the armature with a roll pin.

The spring has to be unwound by hand to access the roll pin, then rewound by hand (takes muscle) once the roll pin is installed.
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Edit: B1A-11350-A .. Bendix Drive with 10 tooth pinion / Obsolete

1948/51 F1/F6 & F5/F6 COE 226/254 / 1948/52 F1/F6 239 / 1953 F100 239 w/3 M/T with or without Overdrive / 1953 all trucks with 239.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:01 PM
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Check to make sure the new starter drive has the correct tooth count. Depending on how many teeth your flywheel has, either 112 or 114 (if stock), depends on which starter drive you use. The 226 could come with both those flywheel tooth counts if that's what you are working on.

JB
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:47 PM
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He has a '52 so this is a 215-6.

It sounds like the starter isn't hitting hard the first time. Could be a loose connection, a cheap solenoid, bad grounds on the starter-to-trans connection (i.e., painted).
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:03 AM
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Thanks for the ideas on what could be wrong with my starter. I'm anxious to get to the bottom of my problem because every time I hear it grind, I'm thinking my flywheel is being damaged. Is this a fair assumption, or would any wear that may occur be limited to the starter drive gear? My son told me the starter gear was probably made from softer metal than the flywheel, and I needn't be concerned.

Jim
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:59 AM
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My son told me the starter gear was probably made from softer metal than the flywheel, and I needn't be concerned.
Sorry Jim but that is just not so. I would suggest that you Google "ring gear on the flywheel damage ford" then click on images. You need to fix this right away. It may already be too late
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:53 PM
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Thanks Pete. I know that my flywheel did not have the type of damage shown in the pictures you referenced. Right now I'm focused on painting (finally), but in the mean time, I'll keep start-ups to a minimum, and get the starter problem addressed as soon as possible. Hopefully the flywheel doesn't have to come out. Getting the engine and transmission lined up and linked together was a major pain.

Jim
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:44 PM
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I remember Mr Selzam telling me when I was restoring my starter that you could actually over restore it and so that has always stuck with me. When I restored mine I kept all of the case contact points greased and free of paint, even to the attach points on the bellhousing. The more paint in the way, the weaker the ground, and subsequent start.

I wouldnt rule out the wrong drive, looks like there is a specific one for your engine.

PS, a ring gear change is a real PITA, even after you actually find a good one.

JB
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52 USCG Panel View Post
Thanks for the ideas on what could be wrong with my starter.

I'm anxious to get to the bottom of my problem because every time I hear it grind, I'm thinking my flywheel is being damaged.

Is this a fair assumption, or would any wear that may occur be limited to the starter drive gear?

My son told me the starter gear was probably made from softer metal than the flywheel, and I needn't be concerned.
Hogwash!
If the teeth are chipped, you don't have to replace the entire flywheel, all you have to replace is the ring gear.

The old ring gear is sweated off, the new ring gear is sweated on.

IMO: Take the flywheel to an auto parts store machine shop to have this done.

You could do it yourself, stick the flywheel in your oven, turn it up to high, sooner or later, the ring gear will pop off.

But to install the new ring gear, you have to do it by hand after it's heated...better wear welding gloves.

The other problem with doing it yourself is when the wife walks into the kitchen, says something smells bad, then says to pull the stove out from the wall...because there's a dead rat behind it.

EAA-6384-A .. 215/223 I-6 & 239/256/272/292/312 Y block Flywheel Ring Gear - 146 teeth / Obsolete ~ Available NOS & from auto parts stores.

Cars/trucks: 1952/53 215; 1954/55 239/256; 1954/64 223; 1955/59 272; 1956/64 292 // Passenger Cars only: 1956/57 Ford/Merc/Thunderbird 312; 1958/60 Merc 312.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:56 PM
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I did do more painting than was probably necessary, but I thought I was careful to keep the contact points clear. Maybe not, however, and I will double check them. I'm hoping for an incorrect drive. I'm hoping too that my original drive is still around. Re-installing it would be a good way to diagnose the problem. I think the drive that was used was just ordered from a local auto parts store.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 52 USCG Panel;17269472[B[B
]]My starter appears to be original and had been working fine.[/B] [/B] When the engine was recently re-built and mated to a replacement transmission, I decided the starter should be re-built as well. As a part of the starter re-build, the drive (bendix) was replaced. Since the starter and flywheel were messed with, the bendix often does not engage properly with the flywheel on the first attempt of an engine start-up.
Jim
Sorry, probably not what you want to hear, but I would clean and inspect the original bendix. If found to be good, lubricate lightly and reinstall it.
I've run into several reproduction Ford starter bendix problems on old Ford tractors. The tractor is similar, perhaps identical to these on the trucks.
Some of these reproduction bendix are junk.
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:02 PM
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Thanks Bill. Hopefully it won't come to having to replace the ring gear. If it does, I'll know what to do. I heat treated my exhaust manifold in my wife's oven when she wasn't home. Had she been home, using the oven would have been a none starter.

Jim
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:29 AM
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If you do end up requiring a new ring gear this one worked on my 53 215 engine: Pioneer Inc. FRG146NC - Flywheel Ring Gear | O'Reilly Auto Parts
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:53 AM
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Thanks Fred for sourcing out a potential replacement part if my ring gear does end up having to be replaced.

My mechanic friend that rebuilt my starter did keep the original drive. He said the replacement drive he installed was meant to be used with a 12 volt system and could be causing the problem. Hopefully Ross and some of our other members who diagnosed my problem as the starter not turning fast enough are correct. The fix should be easy and just involve changing out the drive.

As soon as possible I'll put my old drive back in, and we'll find out if the ring gear is damaged or not.

Thanks again Fred and everyone else who "worked" on my case.

Jim
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:48 PM
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Interesting. I also noticed a big difference between the bendix on my old starter and the new 12v starter that I bought. I also had to put the old Bendix on the new starter for it to fit properly.

Of course since the Bendtsen adapter for my 4R70W came with its own starter I don't need either of them.
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