hey, do you think i will still get full charge with pulleys on if i upgrade to a 130 alternator with a full stereo system?

 

Hrm, it should be okay for the most part. How much of a stereo do you plan?

As long as you don't plan to go with electric fans the 130A should be fine with your stereo. Just be sure to get the 1.75" overdrive pulley for the altenator. I run the ASP pulley set and it is very nice.

The crank is where the power comes from not any of the other accessories.

Do you have AIM? If so post up your handle or e-mail me so I can help you easier.

 

Ok, you are seriously mistaken about Paul's post. He is absolutely correct about the smog pump. Maybe you should really have an understanding of how catalytic converters work before you call out a very senior member here for trying to post untrue information.

in a two-way catalytic converter, Hit man is correct, the converter must stay very hot to effectively break down carbonic emmissions (CO2, CO). Vehicles equipped with smog pumps are so equipped to also break down oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) emissions which require cool, oxygen rich air. The fact that they are capable of efficiently breaking down carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), and oxides of nitrogen (NOx) earn them the title of a 3-way converter. Since some emissions require a high-temperature state to break down, and some require cool, oxygen-rich air, a pump is incorporated which cycles the environment in the converter, enabling all 3 types of emissions to be effectively reduced. Omitting the smog pump does nothing but ever-so-slightly reduce crank drag, and disables the cat's ability to break down nitrogenous emissions. You WILL NOT reduce your nitrogen emissions by removing this device. Your carbon emissions however will be lowered, because you have reduced your system to a two-way.

I really wish you understood emissions equipment before claiming that Paul Menten was just posting material that he "heard to the grapevine". I think his point is extremely valid about the alternators as well; there is no economic sense in purchasing a high output alternator with the intent of underdriving it. The HO alternators are no cheaper than $100, and the pulleys are anywhere from $100-$200. Why pay $200 to gain 2-3 HP? That is certainly not cost-effective whatsoever, and even though you don't claim to have any problems, you are putting your vehicle and your battery at a much higher risk.

 

First off, I don't mean to come off as point fingers or naming names. If I do, I am sorry. Properly functioning emission equipement is a good idea and I always maintain my legality on the streets. Have either of you guys had first hand experience with underdrive pulley sets? Those problems that he brought up I have never seen, nor have I been with people that have those problems with their pullies.

His postings about underdrive pullies were what I found off base, not emission equipment. I have a general idea of how the emission setup works but not a detailed idea...now when it comes to making power I am very confident in what I know; yet there is always room to learn more.

I run the rest of my emission equipment in full, EGR, TAD, TAB, etc. I did not remove the pump for power, just as it was useless as the check valve to the heads has been gone for a very long time now and the air pump to the cat is also gone. Newer vehicles do not use air pumps as the efficiency and engineering of how they are constructed is far better than 15 years ago. I read that vehicles build about 25 years ago pollute 30 TIMES as much as newer vehicles...so would there be any reason to go back in time to utilize old technology and being inefficient..by using air pumps, EGR, and AIR injection.

I also agree that underdriving the alternator is a bad idea; hence the OVERDRIVE pulley for it...that bring back the stock charge. 2-3hp is a non-noticable difference. Your vehicle can differ that much on different weather patterns alone.

Underdriving the crank is where the power comes from, not the alternator, water pump, power steering, or anything else. The crank is good for 8-12rwhp in pretty much every application I have seen...Mustangs, F-bodies, Corvette's, trucks, etc. Many of those applications use just the crank only...but people always install an overdrive alternator pulley to correct the low idle charge.

By having the other sized water pump pulley and smaller alt pulley it brings those two back to stock crank pulley levels of coolant flow and charging abilities. I WOULD NOT underdrive an alternator at all, let alone a HO one...as you said and I agree with it defeats the purpose of it.

I have pretty much full charge at idle with my pulley setup. It is a 3 piece by ASP with an overdrive alternator pulley. I upgraded my stock 65A for a few reasons:

1 - See about about running less load on the larger alt
2 - Better design
3 - Stock 65A may have barely cut the mustard in the '80s, but with modern technology and higher amperage draws I upgraded it due to heavier loads I will impose
4 - It cost me $90 to do so.
5- My 65A was going bad.

Now mind you, I swapped the alternator BEFORE adding the pulley set or doing any mods to my truck...I considered that alternator upgrade a "must do" for dependability and efficiency.

I think the pulley set is getting confused with the alt setup. I'd do the alt upgrade because of reasons listed above. The pulley set for some power...add the crank pulley and water pump pulley then add a overdrive pulley to any alternator being stock 65A or 130A upgrade or higher.

What sort of cat converters are on newer vehicles 2 or 3 way?

 

All new vehicles have 3-way emissions systems, in some form or another. They may not have smog pumps as 80's era vehicles did, but they have some form of inducing cool, oxygen-rich air into the exhaust so that nitrification of the emissions can take place.

when you underdrive the crank, it slows down everything. Then you have to make sure to get the correct diameter pulley to get the alternator to drive correctly, and your other accessories are still turning too slowly. I'm just not sure which of my accessories can do without adequate drivespeed. Power steering is pretty vital, so is my water pump, and alternator is of course. What are we doing this for again? 2-3 HP? setting your valve lash 1/8 turn lighter will create more enough valve movement to let you make up 5-10 HP by not making the lifters bleed down. There are so many more cost-effective ways to make up that power that don't sacrifice drivability. If you really want an edge at the track, just take off all your accessory belts, that's the cheapest and the best underdrive kit! people have been doing that for years.

By the way, my D7AE 40 amp alternator still rockin' me after 26 years. it only puts out 37 amps nowadays, but that's more than enough to run my headlights, MSD ignition, all my gages, a Kenwood audio system, a heater/defroster, and a Hi-Po Permacool electric cooling fan. I think that there's plenty to be said about factory Ford electronics. When the time comes (and it will) to replace, I'm just going to rebuild it using HO parts.

 

I am suprised your stock alternator is still kicking after all this time. Has it ever been rebuilt internally? Or the external regulator replaced? You seem to be taxing it a lot for its low amperage also. I don't really see a point to be on ther verge of charging when you can just have full charge all the time.

My F-150 now has a 130A...which will be upgraded to a 200A for the purpose of running electic fans, the WRX came with a 90A and will stay with that as I have no need for a larger one as I will induce no more than stock amperage loads, the Z71 has a 105 that has been upgraded to 130A due to running electric fans.

You are still missing my point, the crank pulley adds 8-12rwhp, the underdrive alt adds and ADDITIONAL 2-3hp. When you go to overdrive the alt you lose 2-3hp but STILL keep the 8-12 from the crank. You are gaining noticable power with the crank NOT the alt pulley.

Like I said, I have had NO overheating problems in this excessive past Texas summer heat with my pulley set. NO power steering problems other than the proverbial Ford leakage. My A/C has NO problems either. So I don't understand where these problems you are talking about come from.

Take all '02 and newer GM...no EGR, no AIR, no Smog Pump, only two high flow cats.

As I asked before, have you ever run a underdrive pulley set?

 

Hello everyone , when I installed my pullies I went with a 1 3/4" alternator pulley and get a full charge at idle with the AC, stereo and lights on. This is with the stock alt. on my 95 F150. I'm sure the power gain feels like alot more then 2-3 hp. This is just my opinion.



Keep on truckin' ...Mike

 

I'm not missing any bit of your point. You put a smaller crank pulley on, and it slows down your belts. You put a smaller pulley on the alternator, and it speeds it back up, hopefully to the speed that it would have gone with a stock pulley set. When you slow the belts down though, unless you correct all of the pulley diameters like you do the alternator, something is getting underdriven. My point is that none of the accessories will perform as well as they did before, except your alternator because you corrected the drivespeed. No, I have never installed a pulley set because I know that it is a waste of money. I do not bracket race my truck, and I will not sacrifice longevity or dependability for a few HP. I have friends that have them, in fact I have helped them install them, and all of their batteries die every 2 years. Unless you are making full charge at idle, your battery will not live a long life, because lead cell batteries don't respond well to constant charging/discharging. There is one underdrive system that I agree will positively effect the accessories, and that's the March performance serpentine conversion. Even though the kit very moderately underdrives the accessories, the March kit operates smoother, delivering more consistent, less harsh driving action. Other kits will also add maybe 2-3 HP (chassis verified), but there is no reason to do with less power steering boost, A/C compressor output, or anything else you may have. The only time 2-3, or even 10 HP even matters is at the track. At the track, if you still want that extra power, just take your belts off and gain ALL your power back. $200 is much better spent on other parts.

My alternator has never been rebuilt, but I have replaced the external regulator. When I do, I'll rebuild the same case with 65A innerds.

The new vehicles have 3-way emissions SYSTEMS, not necessarily smog pumps, I'm not entirely familiar with the newest systems, but they have some means of controlling carbon and nitrogen emissions. The 3-way converters with smog pumps was the first generation of nitrogenous emissions reduction.

 

man do you guys know your stuff! Im new to the truck scene, but if its a mustang, than chances are, I already know it.With that being said, do you guys think it would be better to run an electric fan, or pullleys, or both? I have a 94 mustang gt with aluminum pulleys so I know what Im talking about when it comes to them, and yes it did dim pretty bad at idle but I have a optima battery that Im going to put in my truck.Another ?, I get HORRIBLE gas mileage, aroung 9-10mpg with a 302! I dont expect too much but damn thats horrible.

 

Don't take my word for the overheating and the undercharging. Surf over to www.corral.net and search the Windsor forum for overheating discussions and undercharging discussions.

What's so ironic about some of the people who post there asking for help with their overheating problems is that they refuse to believe that the underdrive pulleys are part of the problem.

And the underdriven alternator, high amp alternator stuff is a real hoot. Several hundred dollars and nothing gained. Lost money and lost performance.

With respect to the fouling HEGO, EGR and cats; I refer you to Probst's Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control book. Once you have read the whole thing (it's interesting!) you'll never goof around with EGR, AIR or any of the so-called pollution control stuff again except to fix it. That stuff is really good for an engine. Better gas mileage, longer lasting engines, excellent power, very reliable. There's no reason to disable any of it. None of it detracts from engine power. Don't take my word for it, read the book.

My 86 Mustang GT gets 25mpg on the highway, 17 around town. And I bet I can improve on that!

 

hmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

Underdrive pulleys were the one of the best mods for the $$ on my mustang. Seat of the pants you could really feel a difference. I never had any charging or cooling problems with it either, even idling at 100 degrees with the AC on.

However, mine was a SSV mustang, so it had the 130amp alt, and external PS/engine oil/tranny coolers. Along with a better fan and fan clutch.

 

I dont think they will hurt anything, I already have an optima battery.

 

they came on my truck when i bought it. Works fine. Sitting at idle i usually rev it up once in a while. whats the need to sit around a long time at idle with tons of electronics on anywyas??