Okay, folks, I'm looking for a different truck. I've been driving a 2004 Tacoma 4x4 access cab for the last four years and other than maintenance items (brakes, muffler, and plugs) all I've had to do was change the oil and use it. Mileage has been good, but not great...average around 18. All in all it has been a great little truck, but the wife wanted a pontoon, which we bought. An 8' wide by 20' long pontoon and a small truck with a 3.4L V6 and a manual transmission is just not a good combination. I picked up a '98 Expedition with a 5.4 to drag the boat home with, but I can already tell this is not the vehicle I'm going to love. I'm right now taking a break from trying to change the trailing arms on the damn thing. The lower bolts are rusted into the bushings...what a fight. I'll eventually win the battle, but it's not filling me with love for this green monster.

Soooo, I'm looking for a full-sized truck to become my daily driver and boat puller in one. I'm on a retirement budget, so new is out of the question at the moment. I'm looking for a used truck in the $20,000 range (aka 2009-2014 F150).

I have had good luck with the Ford trucks I've owned in the past (two Rangers and an '05 FX4 F150), so I'm leaning Ford. However, I have a tendency to do internet research before I settle on something, which leads me to forums like this where the main topics for discussion are often the problems rather than "I love my truck!" type posts. I won't buy Government Motors ever again, so that eliminates that problem...of which they have plenty.

I like my Toyota, but the Tundra is a major gas hog. I could live with the dated technology to get the reliability, but this will be my dd so 12-14 mpg just isn't going to cut it, I'm afraid.

I had an '02 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD that I really liked until diesel went to double the cost of gasoline in my area, so Ram in not out of the question. The Hemi seems to be a reliable beast that still gets pretty darn good mileage and the quality of the trucks seems to have improved over the years, however the safety rating is lower than Ford's and the transmissions are suspect. Repair parts also tend to be higher in price than Ford's probably due to the much higher volume of Ford trucks being built. Ram isn't off the table...yet...but I'm a Ford guy at heart...raised on flathead V8s and Model A's .

That brings me back to this forum, which I joined back when I had the FX4 or the Ranger...can't remember which. My dad has a 2011 F150 5.0 4x4, which he loves, "Best vehicle I've ever owned!" He says that a lot! However, he only has about 38,000 miles on it. He'll turn 87 in May, so while he is in good health and hopefully will remain so, chances are he won't put enough miles on his truck to gauge the reliability part. I have a couple friends who own 3.5 ecoboost trucks and they both love them and have had zero issues. In fact the second one went from a Chevy to his ecoboost when the other buddy passed him with the Ford...with a loaded 4 place enclosed snowmobile trailer in tow!

Since I don't have a lot of direct evidence of issues, I come here to find out. I think either the 5.0 Coyote or the 3.5 Eco would do what I want done, but when I read about the 5.0 needing the short block replaced due to cylinder issues and the ecoboost eating timing chains and cam phasers to the tune of $$$$ especially when out of warranty it scares the hell out of me. I never had the cam phaser issue with my 5.4, but my son's '04 sounds like a diesel, although I has just decided to "Let her knock" and that has worked for several years now.

So, guys and gals, should I be looking at Ram, should I pour money through the gas tank of a Tundra for the sake of reliability, or am I safe with a Ford? If so is one better than the other? The 2011 and 2012 models fit my budget better, but are the '13 or '14 trucks going to be more reliable? Are they worth another $4000 to $6000? Help me out here. What percentage of these trucks actually have issues?

 

Tundra - Toyota reliability is a myth. Tundras have had rear end failures, crank shaft failures, frame rust and rot issues, etc. They are the ugliest full size truck money can buy, are over-priced, and drink gas like they are sponsored by OPEC. I have no idea why people think Toyota trucks are made of gold.

Ram - I've owned DOZENS of vehicles in the last 21 years, most of which have been 4x4s. My Ram pickups were the most reliable trucks I've ever owned. Neither of the Ram 1500 trucks I've owned ever went to the shop for a single repair. Not once. Just rock solid dependable. However, the gas mileage is HORRENDOUS on them and the new Hemi engines are not much better. For that reason alone, I went with Ford again with my latest purchase a little over a year ago.

Ford - These F-150s do have some common issues. Electric steering seems to be a failure point I've heard about quite a bit. That's a very expensive repair. Some guys apparently have rust and paint issues. I haven't personally. The 2011-2012 5.0 engines experienced failures on some trucks. It seems to be hit or miss, but there are a lot of them that did have the problem. The 2011-2014 EcoBoost trucks have a laundry list of engine issues. Ford fixed some of them for 2013-2014 trucks by changing the vaccum pump, turbos, etc. But the inherent design of those engines sucks, so plan on cleaning carbon off the valves every so often and if you buy one make sure you change oil frequently and use gasoline from a Top Tier fuel retailer. The 2016-2017 trucks have an all new EcoBoost with no shared parts from the original.

If it was me (well, it was in January 2016 ) I would go with a 5.0 equipped 2013 or 2014 F-150 that has good service records and a clean Carfax. Good luck!

 

we just picked up a 2014 F150 with the 3.5 eco in it.


Excellent truck and never in for any work in it's life other than the master cyl recall.


48K and the wife is reporting a solid 18 mpg with her driving style around the area.

 

Thanks for the quick response WXboy. I didn't know the Tundras had so many issues. I guess I was just judging by my Tacoma, which did have the frame replaced by Toyota when I bought it. Otherwise it has been a model of dependability.

The only issue I ever had with my Dodge was the lift pump. I replaced it with a FASS system and had no more issues. The Dakota I had was a whole different animal...something broken all the damn time. I traded it for a 1/2 ton Chevy and had to replace the tranny on that within 6 months. If you thought the Ram mileage was bad...wow! That 350 did love the fuel!

I'm not sure you've instilled me with a huge dose of confidence on the Fords, but it's probably my best bet I guess. I was leaning 5.0 simply because I don't really need a tow beast like the ecoboost and the 5.0 seems to get as good as or better mpg's anyway.

One other question: is there a point at which the '11-'12 5.0 engines normally fail if they are going to? Should my dad be concerned or would the problem have exhibited itself by now? On the other hand, if I find one with over say 60k miles or more, is it past the point where the knock/cylinder issue will be a problem? I know all of them have cam phasers, so that issue will not likely go away. I always run Amsoil in everything I own and so far many of the oil related issues others have had haven't cropped up for me. My '05 ran so quiet I often had to check the tach to make sure I'd already started it...no phaser clatter at all.

The trouble with buying used is one never knows how the PO maintained them, but $40 to $50 thousand dollars is not in the cards for a retired school teacher.

 

First off I'm very brand loyal, but I do read up on the competition and know people with every brand of truck. With that said, they all have issues. Will you have them, who knows?

I will say my long list of Fords have left me with very little repair bills over the years and my 2011 is the newest thing i've ever owned.

On my '11 6.2 i've replaced a heater resistor. Maintenance wise just front rotors + pads and oil changes and it's about the roll over 50K.

I have a friend with a '11 5.0 and only thing it ever went back into the shop for was a rattle in a door when it was a few months old, granted he only has about 30k miles on the truck, but it is daily driven.

Our '13 EcoBoost sales truck at work with around 55k miles on it. Just put brakes on it a week ago and all it's had is oil changes otherwise.

You will be buying a used truck, with that comes worse odds of getting a lemon but overall I believe any of the current half tons to be very reliable, although in my rose colored glasses I believe Ford to be more so, take it for what it's worth.

 

As you already know, there are good and bad in all brands and models.
Myself I like the Coyote 5.0. And there did seem to be some cylinder issues that were fixed/changed by 2013. My 2011 had almost 50k on it when it was totaled out by trees falling on it a year ago. That truck had never had an issue. My 2013 I drive now has never been in the shop for other than service, that I could out about it.
I have friends that do have newer (2015) Eco Boost engine F150's and the love the truck. I have another buddy that had a 2012-13 and he couldn't wait to get out of it and in to another V8. It does seem that the 5.0's get better fuel mileage, the tow rating is still better than 10K, and the Eco Boost is over 11K.
It's a gamble in anything new or used. But I've had the best luck with my V8 F150's.

Unk Bob

 

All trucks will have their issues and the forums will be filled with either people modding their truck or people complaining/asking for help on issues. There are very few people on these forums saying how great their stock truck is, which is the majority of all trucks out there.

Think about how many trucks for each brand are out there and the minimal issues you actually see/hear. You can't go wrong no matter what truck you buy AS LONG AS proper maintenance was done and you do your due diligence while checking it out. If you buy from a dealer try to get them to split the cost of an extended warranty. Any way you go, for something under $20,000 you are probably going to be higher mileage vehicles that by that point should either have issues showing themselves or probably not going to have those issues if proper maintenance was done.

Good luck

 

Tons of 11-14 3.5 EcoBoosts on the road in my area. Not a lot coming into the shop. Timing chains and phasers are the only issue common enough to concern me and they're not as failure prone as the 5.4 3v was. I work at a Ford dealership and we work on more GM's than Ford's currently if that tells you anything about who's paying attention to quality.

Keep in mind that WXboy and his buddy 93Cobra basically just troll this forum preaching their hate for EcoBoost engines. Take anything either of them say with a grain of salt.

 

Thanks, cb_13! If the timing chain/phaser issue is less common than it was in the 5.4, then I'm not overly concerned with it unless I just got lucky with my 5.4. I know three people with ecoboost engines of that era and none of them have been in the shop for anything other than routine maintenance. On the other hand, my sample is very small, which is why I posted here to get a broader spectrum.

For my current needs, I could probably do with a 3.7L F150, but the boss has hinted that she'd kind of like to get a camping trailer again sometime, so I'd just as soon get something to handle that eventuality as well. The 3.7 would probably work, but it would be screaming loud to do it. Either the ecoboost or the Coyote would handle about anything I would hook up. I've been watching Autotrader and craigslist for several weeks, and there are LOTS of ecoboost F150s around with 150K+ and many with 200K+ miles on them for sale, most of them are one or two owner trucks, which says a lot for their durability. The 5.0 is about the same deal. I wouldn't want one with that many miles just because of the wear and tear on the rest of the truck.

I think I'll just find one I like with either motor and see if I can make a deal I can live with. I know used trucks are a bit of a crap shoot, but there is no way a new one will fit my budget.

Thanks again for all the responses!

 

The one tip I'd toss in that hasn't been mentioned is probably one you already know: if possible, stay patient and keep monitoring/updating the online listings you're checking out. By the time I started looking, I'd narrowed down a fairly specific profile for what I wanted which was an '11-14 model year F-150 with either Screw or Scab, and with no more than 60,000 miles. I also ruled out either Blue or Yellow, because it'll be a mighty cold day in Hell before I willingly own a car or truck bearing the colors of That Team Up North, but that's another story for another forum...lol


Anywho, I was steady looking at ads on both the Cars.com app and the AutoTrader app for about a month before I found my '13 STX with the 5.0L Coyote and Scab, with only 48000 miles. I'm not sure what the trucks are going for in your area, but I found with what the dealership called "Internet special" sticker price of $20,500. This was about 3-5,000 less than most anything else I was seeing which was comparable. Conveniently enough, 2 days after finding that listing, my '97 Pathfinder went full-blown village idiot on me, leaving me with a '94 S-10 as my sole dd, and THAT truck had already had 2 ball joints to break on me between October and January (thank God I was parked both times, or I might not be here typing this....SN to the SN: the second ball joint was one of the brand new ones I had put in to replace the first one that broke). Suffice it to say, this F-150 came along at the perfect time with an unbeatable price. In addition to that, the Chevy dealership from which I bought it also included a 12 month, 12k mile warranty, and as Tom in another thread pointed out, I still have the 5y/60k powertrain warranty in effect which came from Ford.


The forums can lead one to believe the "5.0 Tick" is more prevalent than it actually is. So far mine doesn't demonstrate it. If you check out the thread devoted to that, it appears the majority of 5.0 engines to experience the issue involve the '11 and '12 model years, so I'd be inclined to believe the '13 and forward are a safer bet, to be sure. I have no direct knowledge of the EcoBoost and have never owned one, but around here it seems people either love 'em or hate 'em. For my part I've never owned a turbocharged vehicle before, and I opted for the 5.0 coming from the school of thought that "the less parts there are, the less there are than can break." That's probably an oversimplified view, but the way I figured, Ford's been making 5 liter V8s in some form or another for something like 50 years now, whereas the EcoBoost is comparatively newer technology. I'm a reliability junkie, so I tend to side with things which have a lengthy track record.


In summary, I'd say if you opt for a '13-'14 F-150 with the 5.0 Coyote, the odds of you being happy with your purchase are going to be a lot higher than the odds of you being disappointed. Sorry for the novel I appear to have written here, but I hope my input helps. Good luck!

 

If anything I posted is not true:

"Ford - These F-150s do have some common issues. Electric steering seems to be a failure point I've heard about quite a bit. That's a very expensive repair. Some guys apparently have rust and paint issues. I haven't personally. The 2011-2012 5.0 engines experienced failures on some trucks. It seems to be hit or miss, but there are a lot of them that did have the problem. The 2011-2014 EcoBoost trucks have a laundry list of engine issues. Ford fixed some of them for 2013-2014 trucks by changing the vaccum pump, turbos, etc. But the inherent design of those engines sucks, so plan on cleaning carbon off the valves every so often and if you buy one make sure you change oil frequently and use gasoline from a Top Tier fuel retailer. The 2016-2017 trucks have an all new EcoBoost with no shared parts from the original."

Then by all means show evidence and we'll discuss it. Otherwise, it's not cool to disclaim things that other members post, especially members with decades of experience in the automotive world.

 

Please describe this laundry list of engine issues.

Timing components, earlier plug changes(I'm chalking that up to maintenance myself but you can call it an issue if you'd like) and the condensation build up in the intercooler. And no carbon build up does not count because it's not a real issue.

If you and your years of experience are offended I suggest you stay off the Internet. There's a lot of offensive material online.

 

Your tone sounds to me like you're more interested in being right than in actually having an informed discussion about the EcoBoost, about which apparently there isn't a single consensus.


If I'm wrong, then perhaps in the future you could approach matters with a more questioning attitude, such as "Can you elaborate a little more on this litany of issues with the EcoBoost?" rather than going straight for the "accuse the other message board member of being hyperbolic" card (which, using the term "preaching hate" is rather hyperbolic in and of itself, ironically enough).


Personally, I think WXboy's response to your shot was fairly tactful, in contrast to your condescending rebuttal here. Since you imply you're not so easily offended, I'm sure you won't mind my scrutiny here, seeing as how you provoked this confrontation in a public forum. After all, if you were worried about being offended, you wouldn't have been on the internet, since as you stated it's full of offensive material


Maybe I have better things to do than get entangled in a meaningless display of hubris which veers the discussion , but I was enjoying this discussion up until now, and had kinda thought we were all approaching it in the spirit of helping a fellow Ford owner make an objective, informed decision.


I'm sure you'll be inclined to deal me a condescending rebuttal of my own at this point, so fire away. Your move.

 

Okay, guy, let's not let this devolve into a pissing contest. I was simply hoping someone could give some perspective to the number of trucks with serious issues. Is it 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000? Do these things tend to crop up by a certain mileage or not at all?

I've looked at literally hundreds of ads for used trucks with anywhere from 25K miles to 250K miles, many of which included either Autocheck or Carfax data. So far I haven't found either a 5.0 or a 3.5 that had any of the issues so often discussed here with the exception of the vacuum pump being replaced under warranty. Why would those reports list things like oil changes, tire rotation, etc., but conveniently omit short block replacement, cam phaser/timing chain replacement, steering rack replacement, or all of those other high dollar problems. Maybe none of those trucks get advertised on the internet, but that seems rather hard to believe.

I know forums tend to be places to complain about issues and/or crappy dealer service, but I still learn quite a bit on this and other forums I've joined. Do any of you know where one can find any real numbers? I would expect to see some failures with the sheer numbers of trucks Ford sells, but are they enough to make me shy away from a Ford truck?

 

I accept responsibility for my part in chasing the rabbit trail, and for that I apologize to you. No disrespect intended


Back to the topic at hand: I've yet to find any specific data to say what percentage of 5.0L or EcoBoost engines have these issues. The mileage where these issues crop up when they do seems to around the 50k-60k mark on average, but I'm basing that mostly on my own perception, much of which is based on the thread on here devoted to the 5.0 "tick" issue. What I CAN tell you is from the plethora of folks I've spoken to, both on this forum and otherwise, the 5.0L's reputation is overwhelmingly more good than bad. I'm sorry I don't have the hard data you're wanting, but as far as I can tell, to answer your last question, the numbers of failures seems to represent a very small percentage. I'm hardly an expert, though, and I concede as much, so take that for what it's worth.



As for more concrete data, I wonder if you'd be able to contact Ford customer service to get an idea on that. I should imagine the folks who have to replace engines under warranty would have a good idea of the percentage of engines they've had to replace.