05 Mariner no start
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
05 Mariner no start
Hey guys, so my friends mercury Mariner died on him while driving, power steering went then power breaks followed by the rest of the acc. and wont start back up. I ran the codes and it only had 1 being camshaft position sensor, replaced that and the code went away, tried starting and it acted like it wanted to start for a brief second then nothing, same issue but no codes now. Fuel pressure is in spec at 43 psi, battery passed all tests, it has spark ( weak though ) but the plugs are needing changed soon, im not sure what else to check to get it running again, plugs have maybe 35-40% life left so they should be enough to still start the vehicle but maybe run a bit rough. Im out of ideas, Does anyone have any ideas?
2005 Mercury Mariner V6 AWD/4WD
2005 Mercury Mariner V6 AWD/4WD
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
If you crank it does the exhaust smell of unburned gasoline? If so then your problem is ignition, if not then your problem is injectors/fuel related.
If it suddenly cut out (as opposed to misfiring) then the problem is affecting all sparks or all injectors so I would be looking around the wiring harness on the engine for issues. All fuses good?
If it suddenly cut out (as opposed to misfiring) then the problem is affecting all sparks or all injectors so I would be looking around the wiring harness on the engine for issues. All fuses good?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,762
Likes: 1,079
From: St Louis
Just as an observation, the power accessories failed because the engine stalled.
Not to cause undue consternation, but that particular vehicle is in the class that experienced a problem with the spark plugs that eventually would blow out the PCM and required a very expensive repair (PCM, COPS, plugs, PATS reprogram). Your symptoms don't match the specifics listed in the TSB (P035x DTCs), but I wouldn't rule it either in or out. If the spark plugs happen to be original, then it's a possible concern.
Check power supply to both injectors and COPS for full supply voltage.
Check injector operation.
Check spark timing.
Not to cause undue consternation, but that particular vehicle is in the class that experienced a problem with the spark plugs that eventually would blow out the PCM and required a very expensive repair (PCM, COPS, plugs, PATS reprogram). Your symptoms don't match the specifics listed in the TSB (P035x DTCs), but I wouldn't rule it either in or out. If the spark plugs happen to be original, then it's a possible concern.
Check power supply to both injectors and COPS for full supply voltage.
Check injector operation.
Check spark timing.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
If you crank it does the exhaust smell of unburned gasoline? If so then your problem is ignition, if not then your problem is injectors/fuel related.
If it suddenly cut out (as opposed to misfiring) then the problem is affecting all sparks or all injectors so I would be looking around the wiring harness on the engine for issues. All fuses good?
If it suddenly cut out (as opposed to misfiring) then the problem is affecting all sparks or all injectors so I would be looking around the wiring harness on the engine for issues. All fuses good?
Just as an observation, the power accessories failed because the engine stalled.
Not to cause undue consternation, but that particular vehicle is in the class that experienced a problem with the spark plugs that eventually would blow out the PCM and required a very expensive repair (PCM, COPS, plugs, PATS reprogram). Your symptoms don't match the specifics listed in the TSB (P035x DTCs), but I wouldn't rule it either in or out. If the spark plugs happen to be original, then it's a possible concern.
Check power supply to both injectors and COPS for full supply voltage.
Check injector operation.
Check spark timing.
Not to cause undue consternation, but that particular vehicle is in the class that experienced a problem with the spark plugs that eventually would blow out the PCM and required a very expensive repair (PCM, COPS, plugs, PATS reprogram). Your symptoms don't match the specifics listed in the TSB (P035x DTCs), but I wouldn't rule it either in or out. If the spark plugs happen to be original, then it's a possible concern.
Check power supply to both injectors and COPS for full supply voltage.
Check injector operation.
Check spark timing.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
So update, exhaust has no smell at all. I checked COP power and all were the same around 5.9. Cant get to the injectors without removing the top half of the engine it seems. I tried giving it a shot of starting fluid as well and nothing changed, My thinking is if it was fuel related it should of atleast tried to start with SF
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,762
Likes: 1,079
From: St Louis
If you have less than full battery voltage on the supply side of the coils (red wire), you've identified an issue that will prevent engine operation (no or very weak spark). The coils and injectors share a common power source from BJB fuse F30 via the PCM Power Relay. That same power feed runs a whole lot of other things that are mandatory for engine operation.
As a quick test, swap the PCM Power Relay with an identical relay that isn't required for engine operation. Easy to do and only takes a minute. If that doesn't get it, it will be more difficult.
I wouldn't mess with the spark plugs at the moment.
As a quick test, swap the PCM Power Relay with an identical relay that isn't required for engine operation. Easy to do and only takes a minute. If that doesn't get it, it will be more difficult.
I wouldn't mess with the spark plugs at the moment.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
If you have less than full battery voltage on the supply side of the coils (red wire), you've identified an issue that will prevent engine operation (no or very weak spark). The coils and injectors share a common power source from BJB fuse F30 via the PCM Power Relay. That same power feed runs a whole lot of other things that are mandatory for engine operation.
As a quick test, swap the PCM Power Relay with an identical relay that isn't required for engine operation. Easy to do and only takes a minute. If that doesn't get it, it will be more difficult.
I wouldn't mess with the spark plugs at the moment.
As a quick test, swap the PCM Power Relay with an identical relay that isn't required for engine operation. Easy to do and only takes a minute. If that doesn't get it, it will be more difficult.
I wouldn't mess with the spark plugs at the moment.
Trending Topics
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,762
Likes: 1,079
From: St Louis
Time to get the meter out and check the supply circuit. You'll need to focus on circuit 361 and its sources and feeds.
Recommended testing order:
1. BJB F8 supply and load. BJJ distribution
2. PCM Power Relay energized? BJB Fuse F5, diode, ignition switch.
3. PCM Power Relay pin 87 (output)?
4. BJB fuses F5 & 11 (downstream loads from relay).
See what your results are.
Recommended testing order:
1. BJB F8 supply and load. BJJ distribution
2. PCM Power Relay energized? BJB Fuse F5, diode, ignition switch.
3. PCM Power Relay pin 87 (output)?
4. BJB fuses F5 & 11 (downstream loads from relay).
See what your results are.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Time to get the meter out and check the supply circuit. You'll need to focus on circuit 361 and its sources and feeds.
Recommended testing order:
1. BJB F8 supply and load. BJJ distribution
2. PCM Power Relay energized? BJB Fuse F5, diode, ignition switch.
3. PCM Power Relay pin 87 (output)?
4. BJB fuses F5 & 11 (downstream loads from relay).
See what your results are.
Recommended testing order:
1. BJB F8 supply and load. BJJ distribution
2. PCM Power Relay energized? BJB Fuse F5, diode, ignition switch.
3. PCM Power Relay pin 87 (output)?
4. BJB fuses F5 & 11 (downstream loads from relay).
See what your results are.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,907
Likes: 39
From: suburban atlanta
Per a charging image, 12.37 is a 70% charged battery.
In other words, it is 30% discharged(more) at 12.3 volts.
The system should provide battery voltage to the COPs and injectors. The computer will provide a ground to energize the injectors, and provide & remove a ground to operate the COPs. But, they should have battery voltage whenever the key is ON.
Have you looked at the crank position sensor?
tom
In other words, it is 30% discharged(more) at 12.3 volts.
The system should provide battery voltage to the COPs and injectors. The computer will provide a ground to energize the injectors, and provide & remove a ground to operate the COPs. But, they should have battery voltage whenever the key is ON.
Have you looked at the crank position sensor?
tom
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Per a charging image, 12.37 is a 70% charged battery.
In other words, it is 30% discharged(more) at 12.3 volts.
The system should provide battery voltage to the COPs and injectors. The computer will provide a ground to energize the injectors, and provide & remove a ground to operate the COPs. But, they should have battery voltage whenever the key is ON.
Have you looked at the crank position sensor?
tom
In other words, it is 30% discharged(more) at 12.3 volts.
The system should provide battery voltage to the COPs and injectors. The computer will provide a ground to energize the injectors, and provide & remove a ground to operate the COPs. But, they should have battery voltage whenever the key is ON.
Have you looked at the crank position sensor?
tom
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,762
Likes: 1,079
From: St Louis
The crank sensor will not cause the COP supply voltage to be less than half of what it should be, assuming the prior measurement was made correctly.
Focus on resolving the supply issue already noted. If the supply isn't correct, nothing will work correctly.
Focus on resolving the supply issue already noted. If the supply isn't correct, nothing will work correctly.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
The COPS should show what the battery is at correct? Im not use to working on newer vehicles, im use to my old 90s ford truck that hardly has computer controlled anything, way different then this
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Update... Removed the air intake and all hoses attached to get into the injectors and back cops, all COPS and injector connectors are showing normal supply now ( 12.63 per what the battery currently is charged at ) If anyone has the resistance specs for what the cops should be so i can check each one that would be helpful. After this I will start checking noted circuits above and report back
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 19,762
Likes: 1,079
From: St Louis
The resistance of the COPs is irrelevant (and fairly useless as a diagnostic step).
Sounds like you inadvertently "fixed" your issue which may be an intermittent.
Put it back together and see if it runs now. Start over with any new data, if applicable.
Your data has changed, therefore, your approach must change to collect new and valid data.
all COPS and injector connectors are showing normal supply now
Put it back together and see if it runs now. Start over with any new data, if applicable.
Your data has changed, therefore, your approach must change to collect new and valid data.