Opinions on injector replacement without contribution test
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
Opinions on injector replacement without contribution test
- Quite some time ago, I had an oil leak on the ICP so I replaced it and the pigtail.
- Couple months later began hard cold start issues and did the synthetic oil change, as well as the Motorcraft fuel and oil filters.
- Truck would fire and die, fire and die, fire and run this same sequence every time when starting cold. Warm starts were never an issue.
- I got a WiFi OBD and Forscan for iPhone which showed a glow plug fault.
- Ohmed and checked glow plugs and wiring, all good, as per recommendations here I replaced GPCM, the code problem was solved and cold start was "easier"
- ICP was not building 500 within 1-3 seconds and IPR was maxing at 85% so I pulled IPR to inspect screen, it was clean and unbroken, so replaced screen and o-rings anyway. Also checked for spring not hanging up and it returned properly.
- Batteries never dropped below 11v during start and FICM 48-49v always
- Did the blue spring when I did IPR, but had not checked pressures at that time, just seemed like an easy thing to do. Picked up a hose connection with test port, snubber and a gauge. Fuel PSI at 62.
- Added Hot Shots Stiction Eliminator for hard cold starts
- Cleaned EGR and resealed, no wetness, but maybe ever so slightly gooey, intake was dry
- Truck ran very well after above mentioned for about 2-3 weeks
- Pop SMOKE!! Truck started well and white fuel smelling smoke puking from tailpipe. Got Forscan for laptop to do buzz test.
- #8 injector would never buzz, #5 at first did not but then started to every time. Rotated plug connections from 7 to 5, 5 to 3, 5 to 7 and 5 buzzed every time. Rotated 8 to 6 and 6 would buzz, 6 to 8 and no buzz on 8 injector no matter which plug was connected.
- Checked wiring and connections and all were good
- Replaced #8 injector
- Resealed and properly torqued 2, 4, 6 and of course 8
- Confirmed #8 injector coil would not buzz when removed and connected to other plugs
- Fired truck with nice batt charge, good FICM volts
- Still some smoke, tried to let burn off and did not
- Unplugged #5 injector because got a #5 contribution code and smoke for the most part went away
- Replaced #5 injector and resealed 1, 3, and 7 torqueing down properly
- Truck fired right away and very slight smoke (not really fuel, but not coolant either) with an every once in a while stumble with smooth idle
- Truck NEVER ran so smooth
- Cleaned IAT2 sensor, EBP and MAP sensors/tubing and the light smoke with stumble disappeared!! EBP was clean but MAP and IAT2 were NASTY.
- Truck ran AMAZING with no smoke
- Shortly later, truck starts and runs amazingly smooth when cold. Once warmed up to temp it idles VERY rough.
- Researched and tried unplugging the ICP since it only ran rough when warm and the ICPV seemed to bounce around a bit. Seemed to work and ran smooth several times with the ICP unplugged while warm.
- Replaced ICP and pigtail with OEM, did not solve the problem.
- #4 and #6 contribution codes have now popped up, none for the electrical side so do not believe it’s wiring or FICM.
- Ran buzz test and all buzzed great. Did bubble test several times and no bubbles.
- Both injectors ohm good, 1-2 and 3-4 pins show 0.64 ohms, 1-3 1-4 2-3 2-4 show OL using Fluke 189 in auto.
- Have not done any further checking or an uncompensated contribution/balance test.
So my question is, should I just replace the #4 and #6 injectors and hope for the best? Or should I spend the money on having Ford run the IDS contribution test in case it is something else? Tight on budget so I am trying to spend as little as possible.
Oh, and before the first injectors failed the wife ran the damn thing out of fuel because the fuel gauge is not accurate. She didn't remember me telling her to not let it get below 1/4 tank.
- Couple months later began hard cold start issues and did the synthetic oil change, as well as the Motorcraft fuel and oil filters.
- Truck would fire and die, fire and die, fire and run this same sequence every time when starting cold. Warm starts were never an issue.
- I got a WiFi OBD and Forscan for iPhone which showed a glow plug fault.
- Ohmed and checked glow plugs and wiring, all good, as per recommendations here I replaced GPCM, the code problem was solved and cold start was "easier"
- ICP was not building 500 within 1-3 seconds and IPR was maxing at 85% so I pulled IPR to inspect screen, it was clean and unbroken, so replaced screen and o-rings anyway. Also checked for spring not hanging up and it returned properly.
- Batteries never dropped below 11v during start and FICM 48-49v always
- Did the blue spring when I did IPR, but had not checked pressures at that time, just seemed like an easy thing to do. Picked up a hose connection with test port, snubber and a gauge. Fuel PSI at 62.
- Added Hot Shots Stiction Eliminator for hard cold starts
- Cleaned EGR and resealed, no wetness, but maybe ever so slightly gooey, intake was dry
- Truck ran very well after above mentioned for about 2-3 weeks
- Pop SMOKE!! Truck started well and white fuel smelling smoke puking from tailpipe. Got Forscan for laptop to do buzz test.
- #8 injector would never buzz, #5 at first did not but then started to every time. Rotated plug connections from 7 to 5, 5 to 3, 5 to 7 and 5 buzzed every time. Rotated 8 to 6 and 6 would buzz, 6 to 8 and no buzz on 8 injector no matter which plug was connected.
- Checked wiring and connections and all were good
- Replaced #8 injector
- Resealed and properly torqued 2, 4, 6 and of course 8
- Confirmed #8 injector coil would not buzz when removed and connected to other plugs
- Fired truck with nice batt charge, good FICM volts
- Still some smoke, tried to let burn off and did not
- Unplugged #5 injector because got a #5 contribution code and smoke for the most part went away
- Replaced #5 injector and resealed 1, 3, and 7 torqueing down properly
- Truck fired right away and very slight smoke (not really fuel, but not coolant either) with an every once in a while stumble with smooth idle
- Truck NEVER ran so smooth
- Cleaned IAT2 sensor, EBP and MAP sensors/tubing and the light smoke with stumble disappeared!! EBP was clean but MAP and IAT2 were NASTY.
- Truck ran AMAZING with no smoke
- Shortly later, truck starts and runs amazingly smooth when cold. Once warmed up to temp it idles VERY rough.
- Researched and tried unplugging the ICP since it only ran rough when warm and the ICPV seemed to bounce around a bit. Seemed to work and ran smooth several times with the ICP unplugged while warm.
- Replaced ICP and pigtail with OEM, did not solve the problem.
- #4 and #6 contribution codes have now popped up, none for the electrical side so do not believe it’s wiring or FICM.
- Ran buzz test and all buzzed great. Did bubble test several times and no bubbles.
- Both injectors ohm good, 1-2 and 3-4 pins show 0.64 ohms, 1-3 1-4 2-3 2-4 show OL using Fluke 189 in auto.
- Have not done any further checking or an uncompensated contribution/balance test.
So my question is, should I just replace the #4 and #6 injectors and hope for the best? Or should I spend the money on having Ford run the IDS contribution test in case it is something else? Tight on budget so I am trying to spend as little as possible.
Oh, and before the first injectors failed the wife ran the damn thing out of fuel because the fuel gauge is not accurate. She didn't remember me telling her to not let it get below 1/4 tank.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 7
From: South Weber, Utah
- Quite some time ago, I had an oil leak on the ICP so I replaced it and the pigtail.
- Couple months later began hard cold start issues and did the synthetic oil change, as well as the Motorcraft fuel and oil filters.
- Truck would fire and die, fire and die, fire and run this same sequence every time when starting cold. Warm starts were never an issue.
- I got a WiFi OBD and Forscan for iPhone which showed a glow plug fault.
- Ohmed and checked glow plugs and wiring, all good, as per recommendations here I replaced GPCM, the code problem was solved and cold start was "easier"
- ICP was not building 500 within 1-3 seconds and IPR was maxing at 85% so I pulled IPR to inspect screen, it was clean and unbroken, so replaced screen and o-rings anyway. Also checked for spring not hanging up and it returned properly.
- Batteries never dropped below 11v during start and FICM 48-49v always
- Did the blue spring when I did IPR, but had not checked pressures at that time, just seemed like an easy thing to do. Picked up a hose connection with test port, snubber and a gauge. Fuel PSI at 62.
- Added Hot Shots Stiction Eliminator for hard cold starts
- Cleaned EGR and resealed, no wetness, but maybe ever so slightly gooey, intake was dry
- Truck ran very well after above mentioned for about 2-3 weeks
- Pop SMOKE!! Truck started well and white fuel smelling smoke puking from tailpipe. Got Forscan for laptop to do buzz test.
- #8 injector would never buzz, #5 at first did not but then started to every time. Rotated plug connections from 7 to 5, 5 to 3, 5 to 7 and 5 buzzed every time. Rotated 8 to 6 and 6 would buzz, 6 to 8 and no buzz on 8 injector no matter which plug was connected.
- Checked wiring and connections and all were good
- Replaced #8 injector
- Resealed and properly torqued 2, 4, 6 and of course 8
- Confirmed #8 injector coil would not buzz when removed and connected to other plugs
- Fired truck with nice batt charge, good FICM volts
- Still some smoke, tried to let burn off and did not
- Unplugged #5 injector because got a #5 contribution code and smoke for the most part went away
- Replaced #5 injector and resealed 1, 3, and 7 torqueing down properly
- Truck fired right away and very slight smoke (not really fuel, but not coolant either) with an every once in a while stumble with smooth idle
- Truck NEVER ran so smooth
- Cleaned IAT2 sensor, EBP and MAP sensors/tubing and the light smoke with stumble disappeared!! EBP was clean but MAP and IAT2 were NASTY.
- Truck ran AMAZING with no smoke
- Shortly later, truck starts and runs amazingly smooth when cold. Once warmed up to temp it idles VERY rough.
- Researched and tried unplugging the ICP since it only ran rough when warm and the ICPV seemed to bounce around a bit. Seemed to work and ran smooth several times with the ICP unplugged while warm.
- Replaced ICP and pigtail with OEM, did not solve the problem.
- #4 and #6 contribution codes have now popped up, none for the electrical side so do not believe it’s wiring or FICM.
- Ran buzz test and all buzzed great. Did bubble test several times and no bubbles.
- Both injectors ohm good, 1-2 and 3-4 pins show 0.64 ohms, 1-3 1-4 2-3 2-4 show OL using Fluke 189 in auto.
- Have not done any further checking or an uncompensated contribution/balance test.
So my question is, should I just replace the #4 and #6 injectors and hope for the best? Or should I spend the money on having Ford run the IDS contribution test in case it is something else? Tight on budget so I am trying to spend as little as possible.
Oh, and before the first injectors failed the wife ran the damn thing out of fuel because the fuel gauge is not accurate. She didn't remember me telling her to not let it get below 1/4 tank.
- Couple months later began hard cold start issues and did the synthetic oil change, as well as the Motorcraft fuel and oil filters.
- Truck would fire and die, fire and die, fire and run this same sequence every time when starting cold. Warm starts were never an issue.
- I got a WiFi OBD and Forscan for iPhone which showed a glow plug fault.
- Ohmed and checked glow plugs and wiring, all good, as per recommendations here I replaced GPCM, the code problem was solved and cold start was "easier"
- ICP was not building 500 within 1-3 seconds and IPR was maxing at 85% so I pulled IPR to inspect screen, it was clean and unbroken, so replaced screen and o-rings anyway. Also checked for spring not hanging up and it returned properly.
- Batteries never dropped below 11v during start and FICM 48-49v always
- Did the blue spring when I did IPR, but had not checked pressures at that time, just seemed like an easy thing to do. Picked up a hose connection with test port, snubber and a gauge. Fuel PSI at 62.
- Added Hot Shots Stiction Eliminator for hard cold starts
- Cleaned EGR and resealed, no wetness, but maybe ever so slightly gooey, intake was dry
- Truck ran very well after above mentioned for about 2-3 weeks
- Pop SMOKE!! Truck started well and white fuel smelling smoke puking from tailpipe. Got Forscan for laptop to do buzz test.
- #8 injector would never buzz, #5 at first did not but then started to every time. Rotated plug connections from 7 to 5, 5 to 3, 5 to 7 and 5 buzzed every time. Rotated 8 to 6 and 6 would buzz, 6 to 8 and no buzz on 8 injector no matter which plug was connected.
- Checked wiring and connections and all were good
- Replaced #8 injector
- Resealed and properly torqued 2, 4, 6 and of course 8
- Confirmed #8 injector coil would not buzz when removed and connected to other plugs
- Fired truck with nice batt charge, good FICM volts
- Still some smoke, tried to let burn off and did not
- Unplugged #5 injector because got a #5 contribution code and smoke for the most part went away
- Replaced #5 injector and resealed 1, 3, and 7 torqueing down properly
- Truck fired right away and very slight smoke (not really fuel, but not coolant either) with an every once in a while stumble with smooth idle
- Truck NEVER ran so smooth
- Cleaned IAT2 sensor, EBP and MAP sensors/tubing and the light smoke with stumble disappeared!! EBP was clean but MAP and IAT2 were NASTY.
- Truck ran AMAZING with no smoke
- Shortly later, truck starts and runs amazingly smooth when cold. Once warmed up to temp it idles VERY rough.
- Researched and tried unplugging the ICP since it only ran rough when warm and the ICPV seemed to bounce around a bit. Seemed to work and ran smooth several times with the ICP unplugged while warm.
- Replaced ICP and pigtail with OEM, did not solve the problem.
- #4 and #6 contribution codes have now popped up, none for the electrical side so do not believe it’s wiring or FICM.
- Ran buzz test and all buzzed great. Did bubble test several times and no bubbles.
- Both injectors ohm good, 1-2 and 3-4 pins show 0.64 ohms, 1-3 1-4 2-3 2-4 show OL using Fluke 189 in auto.
- Have not done any further checking or an uncompensated contribution/balance test.
So my question is, should I just replace the #4 and #6 injectors and hope for the best? Or should I spend the money on having Ford run the IDS contribution test in case it is something else? Tight on budget so I am trying to spend as little as possible.
Oh, and before the first injectors failed the wife ran the damn thing out of fuel because the fuel gauge is not accurate. She didn't remember me telling her to not let it get below 1/4 tank.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 21
It sounds like 4 and 6 have failed on the fuel side. Basically there are 2 halfs to the injector, the top side being the oil side and the bottom side being the fuel side. The fuel side sometimes fails when hot.
How many miles and is the truck tuned?
.
How many miles and is the truck tuned?
.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
I just got back from a drive. Truck fired off beautifully and was oh so smooth. Standing fuel pressure was 62 psi, running was a steady 60 psi. WOT while driving from a stop and uphill was 58 psi. As soon as my temps hit 180 ECT/EOT the truck started the rough idle again.
Had cleared the codes prior to the drive and rechecked when I pulled backed into the driveway. P0278 popped up again, #6 contribution. Guessing the #4 P0272 would show again too if I drove long enough. Unless #4 being influenced by #6 being bad??
Truck has 155K and not tuned as far as I know. Has a dealer sticker showing a PCM reprogram date of 4/17/06, 3V7A-FUH
Had cleared the codes prior to the drive and rechecked when I pulled backed into the driveway. P0278 popped up again, #6 contribution. Guessing the #4 P0272 would show again too if I drove long enough. Unless #4 being influenced by #6 being bad??
Truck has 155K and not tuned as far as I know. Has a dealer sticker showing a PCM reprogram date of 4/17/06, 3V7A-FUH
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 420
Likes: 3
What's your ipr% while cranking now and while running cold and warm at idle? You said in your original post that you hit 85% while cranking...your ipr should not be getting that high while cranking and may be telling you that you have a leak in your hpo system. Also what's icp volts koeo? Sounds to me like once your oil warms up your hop is having a hard time keeping up
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,097
Likes: 23
From: Kissimmee,Fla
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
What's your ipr% while cranking now and while running cold and warm at idle? You said in your original post that you hit 85% while cranking...your ipr should not be getting that high while cranking and may be telling you that you have a leak in your hpo system. Also what's icp volts koeo? Sounds to me like once your oil warms up your hop is having a hard time keeping up
ICPV KOEO 0.2V
IPR KOEO 14.84%
ICPV IPR% Cranking at 5.648 seconds on my chart
0.2 14.84
0.3 14.84
0.4 14.84
0.5 14.84
0.6 16.02
0.71 17.58
0.81 18.75
0.91 20.31
1.01 21.48
1.12 23.05
1.22 24.22
1.32 25.78
1.42 26.95
1.53 28.52
1.63 29.69
1.73 30.86 At 6.708 seconds
Truck has been firing just fine. I know a while ago it was not, which caused me to remove the IPR and it was clean. Cleaned the EGR, added some Hot Shots, and installed the blue spring. Ever since it seems to fire just fine, just runs rough at idle when warm and throwing the contribution codes.
I tried to attach my Excel file but I think it might be too big. My ICP pressures seem to be good by looking at them. At idle they do not drop below 635 and seem to align with the desired ICP. Could it still be a high pressure oil issue as far as maintaining?
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,138
Likes: 7
From: South Weber, Utah
ICPV KOEO 0.2V
IPR KOEO 14.84%
ICPV IPR% Cranking at 5.648 seconds on my chart
0.2 14.84
0.3 14.84
0.4 14.84
0.5 14.84
0.6 16.02
0.71 17.58
0.81 18.75
0.91 20.31
1.01 21.48
1.12 23.05
1.22 24.22
1.32 25.78
1.42 26.95
1.53 28.52
1.63 29.69
1.73 30.86 At 6.708 seconds
Truck has been firing just fine. I know a while ago it was not, which caused me to remove the IPR and it was clean. Cleaned the EGR, added some Hot Shots, and installed the blue spring. Ever since it seems to fire just fine, just runs rough at idle when warm and throwing the contribution codes.
I tried to attach my Excel file but I think it might be too big. My ICP pressures seem to be good by looking at them. At idle they do not drop below 635 and seem to align with the desired ICP. Could it still be a high pressure oil issue as far as maintaining?
IPR KOEO 14.84%
ICPV IPR% Cranking at 5.648 seconds on my chart
0.2 14.84
0.3 14.84
0.4 14.84
0.5 14.84
0.6 16.02
0.71 17.58
0.81 18.75
0.91 20.31
1.01 21.48
1.12 23.05
1.22 24.22
1.32 25.78
1.42 26.95
1.53 28.52
1.63 29.69
1.73 30.86 At 6.708 seconds
Truck has been firing just fine. I know a while ago it was not, which caused me to remove the IPR and it was clean. Cleaned the EGR, added some Hot Shots, and installed the blue spring. Ever since it seems to fire just fine, just runs rough at idle when warm and throwing the contribution codes.
I tried to attach my Excel file but I think it might be too big. My ICP pressures seem to be good by looking at them. At idle they do not drop below 635 and seem to align with the desired ICP. Could it still be a high pressure oil issue as far as maintaining?
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
190 EOT, 186 ECT
And thanks a ton for all your replies so far guys!! Been trying to read up and figure it out myself without having to really post about it aside from bugging Randy a couple times.
And thanks a ton for all your replies so far guys!! Been trying to read up and figure it out myself without having to really post about it aside from bugging Randy a couple times.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 21
Unfortunately you may be looking at 2 more injectors. You may try running a fuel additive if you don't already do so. Low fuel pressure is often blamed for this type of injector failure. You have corrected this by installing the blue spring, so going forward you should be good.
.
.
Thread Starter
|
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
Oh well, I figured as much while searching high and low regarding these trucks. I'm sure running the truck empty killed my injectors. Just wanted to see if it was worth paying someone to do a contribution test before swapping injectors in case there was something else I was missing. Now trying to make all other problems preventable.
EDIT: I was running DieselKleen and lately the Lucas in the fuel.
EDIT: I was running DieselKleen and lately the Lucas in the fuel.