I purchased a '69 Ford Talladega with original 428cj, c6 auto, and 3.25 open rear. I have gone through all of the typical performance tweaks: rebuilt and tweaked carb, supertuned timing, higher flow mufflers, etc. The static compression ranges from 165 to 190. Only two or three are between 165 and 180, the rest are 190. It puffs some blue smoke when run hard, and has low oil pressure (5psi hot). It runs pretty good, but still seems to lack the power that I read about in so many posts. Most people said that the gears where hurting my performance. So I switched to a 3.89 trac-loc rear. It was not as noticeable as I thought. It actually slowed the car down according to the Gtech meter (15.2@95 vs. 15.73@89). From a dead stop, when spinning it only climbs to 4500rpm (215/70/14 TA Radials). I have accidently had it over 5600rpm a couple times (I like to stay below 5200). Before I blame it on a "tired" motor and spend $4000 getting it rebuild, are there other things that could affect the hp at the rear wheels like this? I would hate to spend the cash and have a 380-400hp dyno'd motor only to find that it was something else all along, or have something like weak valves or springs cause such a loss in power. A strong 428cj car with a C6 will push 300-320hp to the wheels. I doubt if I hitting 180hp.

PS I usual post on the Fordfe.com forum, this is my first post here.

 

Hey thanks for trying us out first! Welcome to the site!

Did it just loose power or has it been this way all the time? If it's been all the time then my guess would be tired valve springs or your lifters are pumping up, that would keep you from winding it out. Sure the secondaries are opening up?

Barry

 

Hey BB, this forum has alot to offer as does the fordfe.com forum. It actually runs a lot better now than when I first bought it. Again, it runs strong, but there should be a ton more power. My secondaries are opening, but I question if they open enough. I have tried different secondary springs, with slight improvements in off idle performance, but then it bogs when I kick it down during cruising. If I disconnect the secondaries all together, it performs much worse.

 

Just another comment, those gears should have woke up that engine. When I first bought my CJ mach1, it had 3.00 in the rear (mandatory for AC). Switched them out for 4.11 w/ traction loc (built by Ron Miller at FPP) and wow..... unbelievable difference!! Course it's really buzzing on the freeway now. I think a 3.89 would have been the best compromise.

Barry

 

Hmmm... with the right spring it shouldn't bog. This may sound drastic but have you tried another carb. on there just to rule it out? If it is the carb, I'd try to fix yours because the stock 735 is the best performing by far and has a lot of neat design features not on the regular Holleys. Ford and Holley got together and pieced together a masterpiece. I've seen a lot of CJ and GT carbs. at the swap meet that were junk though, too many people dinking around with them already.

Barry

 

More thinking, another culprit would be the ignition wheezing out at high rpm, what are you running?

Barry

 

The carb has been completely rebuilt. I run a pertronix ignition with matching coil. New wires and plugs gapped at .035. Everything I've done has been baby steps. I'm looking for that grand slam improvement. It got to be in there somewhere. I thought the 3.89's would be it.

 

Ah, the light went on. How did you wire the pertronix? There is one right way and a lot of wrong ways.

Barry

BTW I keep forgeting to mention, a Talladega with a CJ, how cool is that?!! VERY COOL!!!

 

The right way I guess. It doesn't miss and the plugs burn clean. I also checked, and I've got 12volts at the positive side.

 

Oh, ok. The only reason I ask is because the Pertronix instructions aren't very clear on that. When you use it with a ballast or stock resistor wire, the unit should not be powered from the coil + lead.

Man, I'm running out of ideas here, sorry. We've covered ign, comp, & carb. The slowing down with the gear change means something. Is it mostly mid and top-end power that's missing or all across the board?

Guys, jump on in anytime. The water's fine!

Barry

 

if the engine seems reasonably strong, i'm wondering about the c-6.............has it been looked at??? could have some slippage or a converter problem?????

 

I'm wondering about the cam. You didn't mention changing it so maybe you've got a weak grind in there. Changing your rear end might have taken you even further out of the cam's powerband.

 

Thanks for the great responses guys. BB, it revs past 5500rpm, but doesn't seem to pull as hard above 4500. It's powerband seems to be from 2500-4800rpm. If I do a rolling start so it doesn't spin, it struggles a bit at first then comes on strong. If I manually shift at 4800 or so it will grab some rubber going into second.

Luv, the C6 is original and untouched as far as I know. It shifts strong. I have no idea about the convertor. How could I diagnose an issue with the convertor or trans? If I test the stall of the convertor, my tires start spinning at 1500rpm. The breaks don't hold above that.

Fast, it has the original C60Z-B CJ cam, again, as far as I know. I have visually watched the rockers move, and I didn't see anything unusual which is no big surprise.

 

Some more info guys. I was questioning whether my secondaries were opening far enough and fast enough. So, I put a bolt in the secondary arm so they dumped wide open when the accelerator was floored. Besides the bog that would occur when hammered from a stop or slow roll, it improved the performance noticeably. It pulled harder in the upper mids than it has before. More baby steps. A friend has fresh rebuilt CJ carb that I am going to try. For some reason my secondary body has an brass orifice in it instead of a check ball setup.

I had my friend, who is quite familar with muscle car, drive the car. He thinks it's some what down on power, but for the most part performs quite well. That's very disappointing to hear. That means I have totally unrealistic expectations of what a stock muscle car can do. I've bit, hook line and sinker, into the jargon that stock '60's muscle could "shred the rear tires at will". I've read aticles in old mags that say, on a drag strip, with a stock CJ car, if you dip into the secondaries at any point while in first gear, the tires are blown away. Is this all BS? What's realistic for a stock 428cj car?

 

Well, not to sound like a weeny, but maybe improvements in tire technology are the reason; those old bias ply tires weren't worth much. I'm more or less experiencing the same phenonmenom with my Torino whose 429TJ has more stock horsepower and torque than the 428CJ; I can scratch 'em but I have a 4-spd which makes it a lot easier. Of course, I have some big mother Goodrich T/As back there now but I was expecting fire and smoke just the same. I am planning to tear the motor down because I'm not really sure how it's put together; I may ultimately end at the same conclusion that you have. So, then I'll just have to stroke it!

Seriously, if you're losing sleep over this whole thing why don't you pull the motor and schedule some dyno time? If the motor checks out, then you'll know. If it turns up lame, then it's already out for the rebuild.