Stronger axles
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 120
Likes: 2
Stronger axles
All adds you see ford says they beefed up the axles on the 2017. What does that really mean ? Stronger complete axle or just better parts inside. My 2011 350 SD has a 10 bolt custom cover will it be the same?
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,118
Likes: 650
From: NH
Axles are well covered here. For 2017, most models received completely new axles.
All gas trucks, except maybe the 350 dually, keep the exact same Sterling 10.5 axle as before.
Base F250 diesels keep the Sterling 10.5 as well.
F250 diesels with the HD tow package and all diesel single wheel F350 trucks get a new Dana M275 axle.
F350 dually diesel trucks get a new Dana M300 axle.
F450 trucks get an uprated version of the new Dana M300.
All of the "new" Dana axles have larger axle tubes, larger spline diameters and more splines, and larger ring gears.
All gas trucks, except maybe the 350 dually, keep the exact same Sterling 10.5 axle as before.
Base F250 diesels keep the Sterling 10.5 as well.
F250 diesels with the HD tow package and all diesel single wheel F350 trucks get a new Dana M275 axle.
F350 dually diesel trucks get a new Dana M300 axle.
F450 trucks get an uprated version of the new Dana M300.
All of the "new" Dana axles have larger axle tubes, larger spline diameters and more splines, and larger ring gears.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 12
The F450 I ordered, as near as I can tell, gets basically the same axle.
2016 --> 2017
Dana S111 --> Dana M300
Ring gear: 11.8" --> 11.8"
Axle size minor: 1.72" --> 1.72"
Axle size major: 1.85" --> 1.85"
Max rating @ ground 12,000# --> 12,000#
Tube diameter: 4.25"x4.25" --> 4.25"x4.25"
Splines: 34 --> 34
Either axle is more than big enough though.
Sources:
2017: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...bs_-_Specs.pdf
2016: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...SB_Updates.pdf
With the specs on the axles being identical, I'm suspicious that the 2017 specs may not be correct. Tube diameter of 4.25"x4.25" makes sense for the S111 square tubes, but not for the M300 round tubes.
Visually, the s111 looks a lot bigger.
2016 --> 2017
Dana S111 --> Dana M300
Ring gear: 11.8" --> 11.8"
Axle size minor: 1.72" --> 1.72"
Axle size major: 1.85" --> 1.85"
Max rating @ ground 12,000# --> 12,000#
Tube diameter: 4.25"x4.25" --> 4.25"x4.25"
Splines: 34 --> 34
Either axle is more than big enough though.
Sources:
2017: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...bs_-_Specs.pdf
2016: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...SB_Updates.pdf
With the specs on the axles being identical, I'm suspicious that the 2017 specs may not be correct. Tube diameter of 4.25"x4.25" makes sense for the S111 square tubes, but not for the M300 round tubes.
Visually, the s111 looks a lot bigger.
Elder User
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 785
Likes: 2
The S111 may very well be bigger. A circle with a diameter of 4.25" will fit inside a square that is 4.25" x 4.25".
However, that doesn't mean it's stronger. Circles/radii/arches are the strongest designs. Designs with flat spots and hard corners are inherently weaker, because they can't distribute a point load as evenly.
It's perfectly feasible that the new circular axle tubes are stronger than previous designs, and that's before factoring in variations in wall thickness or metallurgy.
However, that doesn't mean it's stronger. Circles/radii/arches are the strongest designs. Designs with flat spots and hard corners are inherently weaker, because they can't distribute a point load as evenly.
It's perfectly feasible that the new circular axle tubes are stronger than previous designs, and that's before factoring in variations in wall thickness or metallurgy.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 2
The S111 may very well be bigger. A circle with a diameter of 4.25" will fit inside a square that is 4.25" x 4.25".
However, that doesn't mean it's stronger. Circles/radii/arches are the strongest designs. Designs with flat spots and hard corners are inherently weaker, because they can't distribute a point load as evenly.
It's perfectly feasible that the new circular axle tubes are stronger than previous designs, and that's before factoring in variations in wall thickness or metallurgy.
However, that doesn't mean it's stronger. Circles/radii/arches are the strongest designs. Designs with flat spots and hard corners are inherently weaker, because they can't distribute a point load as evenly.
It's perfectly feasible that the new circular axle tubes are stronger than previous designs, and that's before factoring in variations in wall thickness or metallurgy.
Prolocutor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,618
Likes: 1,245
From: Western MA
The F450 I ordered, as near as I can tell, gets basically the same axle.
2016 --> 2017
Dana S111 --> Dana M300
Ring gear: 11.8" --> 11.8"
Axle size minor: 1.72" --> 1.72"
Axle size major: 1.85" --> 1.85"
Max rating @ ground 12,000# --> 12,000#
Tube diameter: 4.25"x4.25" --> 4.25"x4.25"
Splines: 34 --> 34
Either axle is more than big enough though.
Sources:
2017: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...bs_-_Specs.pdf
2016: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...SB_Updates.pdf
With the specs on the axles being identical, I'm suspicious that the 2017 specs may not be correct. Tube diameter of 4.25"x4.25" makes sense for the S111 square tubes, but not for the M300 round tubes.
Visually, the s111 looks a lot bigger.
2016 --> 2017
Dana S111 --> Dana M300
Ring gear: 11.8" --> 11.8"
Axle size minor: 1.72" --> 1.72"
Axle size major: 1.85" --> 1.85"
Max rating @ ground 12,000# --> 12,000#
Tube diameter: 4.25"x4.25" --> 4.25"x4.25"
Splines: 34 --> 34
Either axle is more than big enough though.
Sources:
2017: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...bs_-_Specs.pdf
2016: https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...SB_Updates.pdf
With the specs on the axles being identical, I'm suspicious that the 2017 specs may not be correct. Tube diameter of 4.25"x4.25" makes sense for the S111 square tubes, but not for the M300 round tubes.
Visually, the s111 looks a lot bigger.
Specs are on the second line of this chart.
Elder User
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 785
Likes: 2
Citation?
Certainly manufacturers always want to pay less for the components they put in their products, but wholesale cost isn't the only factor taken in to consideration.
Certainly manufacturers always want to pay less for the components they put in their products, but wholesale cost isn't the only factor taken in to consideration.
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
OK, I know as muc about axles as I do brain surgery...I have the 2017 F350 4x4, DRW with 3.55 axles. If I wanted to move up to the 4.10 axle, what would it take? Or can it even be done. Not saying I want to, but if I did.
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Prolocutor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,618
Likes: 1,245
From: Western MA
If not, Ford has them because the 4.10's were an option on the DRW 350. So, get them, get them swapped, and update your trucks computer so it knows your new ratio. That can be done at the dealer or with Forscan...
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 12
The pinion gear is smaller on a 4.10, so I suspect that you would either need a different carrier, or need to use a spacer on the ring gear. (I know that is the case on the GM 10 and 12 bolt rears, but I'm not sure about the Dana.)
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,399
Likes: 12
Correction on my original response. The C&C specs are the same on the Ford site for the 2016 / 2017 rear (although possible wrong).
The F350 SRW & DRW did get a larger ring gear, axle tubes, and axles 2017. The brakes are also larger on the 2017 trucks. Ford doesn't have the specs for the 2016 F450 rear axle on their site - the columns aren't filled out.
Again, I'm sure the rear is more than strong enough for anything I'll every throw at it.
The F350 SRW & DRW did get a larger ring gear, axle tubes, and axles 2017. The brakes are also larger on the 2017 trucks. Ford doesn't have the specs for the 2016 F450 rear axle on their site - the columns aren't filled out.
Again, I'm sure the rear is more than strong enough for anything I'll every throw at it.
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,118
Likes: 650
From: NH
Correction on my original response. The C&C specs are the same on the Ford site for the 2016 / 2017 rear (although possible wrong).
The F350 SRW & DRW did get a larger ring gear, axle tubes, and axles 2017. The brakes are also larger on the 2017 trucks. Ford doesn't have the specs for the 2016 F450 rear axle on their site - the columns aren't filled out.
Again, I'm sure the rear is more than strong enough for anything I'll every throw at it.
The F350 SRW & DRW did get a larger ring gear, axle tubes, and axles 2017. The brakes are also larger on the 2017 trucks. Ford doesn't have the specs for the 2016 F450 rear axle on their site - the columns aren't filled out.
Again, I'm sure the rear is more than strong enough for anything I'll every throw at it.
The 350 dually and 450 share an axle for 2017. However, the 450 has larger diameter half shafts and a larger ring gear.